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Whining noise and hard start :confused:

6.5K views 20 replies 6 participants last post by  jasonm4  
#1 ·
Hoping to get some help here.
I noticed last week Friday when I started my car that a whining noise was coming from my engine bay. I popped the hood to take a look and it sounds like its coming from the accessory belt area. I gave the car some gas and the noise increased, sounding kind've like a super charger. Well I thought ok maybe its the power steering or alternator,.. or maybe my tensioner pulley. Kind've confused I shrugged it off for the day. I parked the car for the weekend and didn't drive it until Monday. Of course on Monday the sound was still there.

But on Tuesday morning I went to start my car and the car struggled for a bit turning over. I looked at my voltage gauge and I noticed it was dancing around a fair amount. I have never seen it move more then maybe a notch in either direction but on Tuesday it was dancing. I noticed that when I gave the car gas the voltage meter would shoot up. But if I was stopped at a light the voltage meter would go down. Now at this point I'm thinking its got to be the alternator. But I read more up about it and that doesn't seem to be the case, because it looks like the battery is getting a charge from the alternator.

So the next day I took the car to advanced auto to have them check my battery and alternator. They did their test and it showed that the alternator and battery are good but they said my starter is pulling more amps then it should.

Thats all well and good. If I need to change my starter no problem, but would the starter give me the whining sound I'm experiencing? The noise is more noticeable when I first start the car. After about 10 mins of driving the noise is still there but it gets quieter.
:confused: please help.
 
#2 ·
Might be your pwr steering either low on fluid or is going out. I'm actually changing the fluid in mine this wknd.

someone help me.. wasnt there a guy on here that reported the same noise from his crankshaft damper?
 
#3 ·
I'll check my power steering fluid. I have noticed a good amount of oil residue on out side of it.
 
#5 ·
The whining noise could be a result of a few things. Some things I would check,
1. Make sure your PS reservoir isn't dry and is filled at least to the low mark
2. Pull the serpentine belt off and check your accessory pulleys one by one, checking for play side to side and also listening to the pulley while you spin them. There should be no rumble and if it does the bearing is bad. It's quite common for the tensioner bearing to go bad after awhile, so I have some suspicion there. You can also use a mechanics stephoscope or a long flat blade screwdriver and stick one end to your ear and the blade end to the front of the housing of the water pump, alt, etc. Just be careful and don't use any sprays on the belt.
3. It could be the belt itself if the noise goes away as the car warms up. A belt with mileage more than 30k most likely needs replaced ( $22@ NAPA).

As far as starting, a poor connection would definitely cause high amps. So with that said, I would check and clean the battery terminals, bolted alt wire, engine ground wire(located right behind passenger motor mount) and the starter's bolted cable connection. When voltage fluctuates like that it can be due to a weak battery that needs charged. Your ride to get it checked may have topped it off. But normally when the alt isn't producing current or proper voltage, you will get the charging malfunction indicator. So I would check all those connections first and possibly get the battery retested. What did they say your battery voltage was and reserve capacity? With the car running, voltage going to the battery should always be 13.2-14.8vdc, anything lower and the voltage meter will move around.

Edit: i didn't see any of the posts above before writing..
 
#6 ·
Yea after the guy did the test I thought to my self that driving 20 mins there from work might have messed up the results. These are the numbers I got from the test.

Battery
Voltage: 12.78V
Measured: 501 CCA
Rated: 430 CCA
Temp. 104

Starter
low cranking amps
Voltage: 11.47V
Amps: 0.0A
Time: 953mS

Charging System
Excessive Ripple
No Load: 13.29V
Load: 13.11V
Ripple: 547mV

At the bottom is reads " Charging system problem"
 
#8 ·
Excessive ripple means the alt is not fully producing DC voltage. An alt is basically a three phase motor and a diode pack converts it to DC, but if the diodes aren't working correctly you will throw AC voltage into the car's charging system. Your value of over a half volt of AC ripple is no good for the battery or the car's computer. What I suggest doing is checking AC ripple with a voltmeter, even a $5 meter can work. Check the AC ripple test in the DIY diagnostic below. You do an AC ripple test with a moderate to high electrical load(AC fan on, high beams on, etc.)and voltage should never be higher than 500mV or half a volt AC.

Http://my.is/forums/f221/diy-charging-system-full-diagnostic-alternator-battery-426000/

Chances are the alt is no good anymore if the AC ripple is that high, but I would double check before replacing your $600 Denso alt. Diode breakdown only gets worse.
 
#10 ·
Hey I just noticed to live in Delray.. I was born and grew up there until i was 15. That place has changed a lot especially downtown delray at the beach.
 
#11 ·
Yea I've been living here for almost 2 years now. And from what I hear it has changed a lot. I live downtown right on Atlantic and 2nd ave. Cant complain lol its a nice place to live. But from what I understand 10-15 years ago most people would try their best to avoid the area.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Use some WD40 and one at a time, spray the pulley bearings (not the belt or pulley). If it quiets down you found the culprit. My tensioner bearing has been whining for the last 10,000 miles. I finally got around to changing it last week.

The reason your voltage is dancing is because the tensioner is seizing causing a drag on the belts. And the voltage regulator cant keep up at idle supplying the ignitors.
 
#15 ·
Belt conditioners and belt grip sprays are probably the worst thing you can do to a belt, not to mention it will cover your engine bay in crap everywhere. I have like 4 different types at work and never use them. If you know the belt is squeaking or has more than 30k on it, then just spend the $22 for a new belt. Those sprays are only a bandaid and I would stay clear of them IMO. Belt needs to stay dry.

Use some WD40 and one at a time, spray the pulley bearings (not the belt or pulley). If it quiets down you found the culprit. My tensioner bearing has been whining for the last 10,000 miles. I finally got around to changing it last week.
Exactly. That's what I've done in the past to confirm a bad PS bearing and tensioner. As mentioned, use the straw and be careful to avoid the belt, give the PULLEYS a tap of spray, one at a time, the noise will quiet for a short period if you have found the culprit.
Again, I would also remove the belt and check the pulleys even before using sprays, takes all of 10 minutes to do. Just my thoughts.

The reason your voltage is dancing is because the tensioner is seizing causing a drag on the belts. And the voltage regulator cant keep up at idle supplying the ignitors.
I was thinking about that too but that wouldn't make sense why there is over half a volt of AC ripple which is totally unacceptable. Hopefully the Op has access to a voltmeter so he can do the AC ripple tests on his own, with a low electrical load and a high one. It should never go higher than 500mV/0.5VAC, mine goes to about 300mV max but that's with 80 amps feeding my audio on full volume.
The test brought up about the ripple current and that's exactly what the bench test can prove. Normally when I get a result like the Op did I usually get a second opinion and perform the test again somewhere else to confirm the results. It takes a lot to kill a Denso alt.
I could see the tensioner causing an issue as they are the first to go bad but that wouldn't explain the excessive ripple AC voltage. But it could be a problem and compounding the issue, especially with the noise the Op has. Check the belt tension, it should be very difficult to grab the belt at the top with just your finger and thumb and try to turn it 180 degrees.
So how old is the belt? What is it's condition? Almost always when the belt quit ups when the car warms up it's usually a bad belt(grips better when rubber is warm, same theory as tires).
 
#14 ·
what i did when i had the sqeaky sound i sprayed some belt conditioner and the noise went away
 
#16 ·
Well just to give an update if anyone was wondering. I took the car over to Firestone (College Student trying to cut cost) and they said I needed a new battery. Kind've skeptical I said alright fine change that battery. But what about the moaning noise. They had no idea. I thought to my self they didn't really check for it and when I get there I'll show them the problem. Well when I went to go pick up the car I pulled the manager over to my car and had him check out the noise. After about 5 mins he determined that it was most likely the PS going bad and recommended a PS flush.

So I went home and tried to flush the system. That was a mess I wasn't able to get all the old fluid out but I has able to at lest add a full quart of new fluid. Well the moaning noise was still there. So to make sure it was still the power steering I put a wrench on the pump while the car was running and man as soon as I put my ear on the wrench it was very apparent. The PS is the source of the noise. Frustrated I gave up for the day.

The next day I went go change out my passenger side ball joint. It had been popping pretty bad for a few months. When I got under the car I just so happen to look over at the Tie rod and ,..damn. I found the source of all my problems. My rack and pinion is leaking and the boot is full of PS fluid. -_-.....So now I'm looking into buying a new rack and pinion and PS pump.

So far the new battery has been working fine. Its been in almost a week and the car starts fine and no serious movement in the Voltage gauge. So I guess maybe both problems just came about at the same time. I've noticed oil around the boot for about maybe a month now. But I never put to and to together. So yea thats where im at right now.
 
#17 ·
Sorry to hear, but definitely three separate issues. I still might have a PS pump for sale with 40k miles on it if you want it(runs great), have to check when I get home. You can get a remanufactured rack for pretty cheap, it's just more labor intensive because of the stuff in the way. You can buy a seal kit for it but it's much easier and less time consuming just to swap it out.
2002 LEXUS IS300 Rack and Pinion Complete Unit
 
#18 ·
Yea Iam most defiantly interested in the PS pump. I see you said 3 separate issues? Now the starting problem I can see that as being a totally separate issue. But what about the moaning from the PS and the leaking rack? Cant those two things be linked? It was my understanding that a leaking rack could eventually lead to PS pump failing. And the moaning can possibly be linked to air being sucked in from the leak? Just trying to make sure my thought process is leading to the correct conclusion.
 
#19 ·
It's possible you're correct unless the PS bearing is what went bad not the impeller and the rack boots were already filled and you just noticed them, I guess it could go either way. It can be hard to tell if the bearing or impeller unless you specifically can notice bearing rumble. Take the belt off and see if the pulley spins without noise or wobble and doesn't have play. I will try to verify I have the pump tonight and let you know asap. Do you notice emulsification/bubbles in the reservoir after turning from lock to lock when the car is on? It should be clear and there's a screen at the bottom of the tank to collect metal shavings.
 
#20 ·
I'll take the belt off and look this weekend if I have time, probably put a new belt on while im there. And I didnt see any bubbles but I have noticed my steering becoming heavier. And yea from what I can see there are a lot of metal shaving. Message me about that PS pump.
 
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