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Discussion Starter #1
I had the opportunity to test drive a WRX sedan this afternoon and thought I would chip in my .02. I'll provide further details but let me first say that this car is a big step down in many ways from the IS300 and others in it's class.

The overall refinement or lack thereof if evident everywhere whether you it's the interior, suspension, or general build quality. Yes, the car is fast; much faster than the IS300, but everything else is pretty much a let-down.

Styling: those large headlights dominate your perception, but the rest of the car is mundane econobox.

Interior: really cheap and if you thought the IS300's interior was tight then don't get in this car.

Engine: fast and somewhat unrefined.

Handling: the all-wheel drive is fun and the car sticks to the road, but road noise and especially tire roar is high. I wouldn't want to take this car on a trip over about 20 minutes.

Other: the car comes in one trim level which lacks the availability of a sunroof and I believe the only options are a trunk spoiler and 17 inch wheels and tires. This package according to the salesman adds a whopping $3,500 dollars (they better be damn good looking wheels for that price).

Summary: I'm reminded of the Corvette vs. Porsche debates. Yes, the Corvette was/is fast but which one would you rather own. The Subaru WRX is a fast car, but I wouldn't want to own one. Period.

For something fun from the past check out:

Ashford's Triumph TR6 site
 

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The reason for the abssence of the sunroof is the safety problems. The way the car was manufactured before(98-01) the pilars could not support as much because of the weakness the sunroof played on the roof. I can tell you from personal experience that the car is not very safe. I was T-boned in a 01 RS last year and the car crumbled, a truck hit the side of the car on my whole roof collapsed. I dont think the car is safe at all, it is small and they redesigned it without a sunroof to make the car more sturdy. This is not direct information, but info I have received from resorces and personal experience. I would not go with a Suby, the new style is fast but ugly, I would rather put a supercharger or Turbo in my IS and make it faster. It already looks better!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That's interesting and troubling about the sunroof. The salesman did mention that it was left off for safety reasons, but I chalked that up to factory bs.

Geez if a sunroof makes that much difference in structural integrity then it must be pretty bad. Real bad. Hard to imagine given the pretty good safety record of most new cars.
 

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I dont want to give, them a bad name, well actually I do! Their cars suck, that guy t-boned me and the undercarage(frame) of the car was torn in half, I am surprised I was not hurt more that I was, the door ripped off, the roof collapsed, the frame was split down the middle and my seatbelt, the most important thing in the car, ripped, I am glad it had a lap belt, or I would have flown out. There are a lot of factors, Subaru is not the only one to blame, and they will say that also when they see my car, but that guy did hit me so it is really his fault, but I would never buy another Subaru nor recommend one.
 

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Oh, and for the sunroof, these are rumors I have heard, nothing from Subaru themselves, I don't think they would want to release that info, people would be screaming if this was actually stated by the dealer, but after seeing my car, I think it is true, that is why you can't get a sunroof anymore, and the blame is on you if you go with after market. Sorry I have a lot of hatred towards Subaru and this post just brought it back..
 

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Discussion Starter #6
One thing I forgot to mention was the gearshift. The shifter was extremely notchy. The feel to the shifter was very low rent and much like the rest of the car not in the same league as an Audi, BMW or Lexus.
 

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Originally posted by ralittle2:
I had the opportunity to test drive a WRX sedan this afternoon and thought I would chip in my .02. I'll provide further details but let me first say that this car is a big step down in many ways from the IS300 and others in it's class.

The overall refinement or lack thereof if evident everywhere whether you it's the interior, suspension, or general build quality. Yes, the car is fast; much faster than the IS300, but everything else is pretty much a let-down.

Styling: those large headlights dominate your perception, but the rest of the car is mundane econobox.

Interior: really cheap and if you thought the IS300's interior was tight then don't get in this car.

Engine: fast and somewhat unrefined.

Handling: the all-wheel drive is fun and the car sticks to the road, but road noise and especially tire roar is high. I wouldn't want to take this car on a trip over about 20 minutes.

Other: the car comes in one trim level which lacks the availability of a sunroof and I believe the only options are a trunk spoiler and 17 inch wheels and tires. This package according to the salesman adds a whopping $3,500 dollars (they better be damn good looking wheels for that price).

Summary: I'm reminded of the Corvette vs. Porsche debates. Yes, the Corvette was/is fast but which one would you rather own. The Subaru WRX is a fast car, but I wouldn't want to own one. Period.

For something fun from the past check out:

Ashford's Triumph TR6 site
That's true. But I have to admit, for the price the WRX is a pretty good buy. Especially if we compare the performance of other cars in its price range. But ofcourse I'm happy with my IS, I love the quality and styling.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
GKL68, I'm not knocking the performance and it is pretty good especially given the price, but there's more to life than 0-60 in my book.
 

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No it's true. I have a friend that sells/manages a Subaru Dealer in NJ. He informed me (Before I even read this thread) that the WRX's were left sitting @ the port in Boston before they came to NJ due to the sunroof problem. Also the first bunch that came in didn't have the gauges shown in the commercial. (I have a friend that purchased a WRX) I think they were on back order or something.


Originally posted by VVTIS:
Oh, and for the sunroof, these are rumors I have heard, nothing from Subaru themselves, I don't think they would want to release that info, people would be screaming if this was actually stated by the dealer, but after seeing my car, I think it is true, that is why you can't get a sunroof anymore, and the blame is on you if you go with after market. Sorry I have a lot of hatred towards Subaru and this post just brought it back..
 

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Yea, it is just something I heard, but the sunroofs are still unavailiable and it is 4 months later, the dealer in Austin said it would not be available in the new body style. I know there are not many around and limited but I have yet to see one with a sunroof. The structural issue could be the problem with the sunroof?? I am not trying to make accusations just thoughts on subject.
 

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Toyota's (lexus) are top quality cars when it comes to safety, and are constantly getting better, so I'm always partial to their vehicles. When I was in high school a few years back i skidded out on the highway at 75 mph and flipped the 4Runner sideways several times. The car had a sunroof on it, and every window except for the sunroof and back window was smashed. All the body panels were smashed in. The doors were not really functional (bad thing) but we all walked away after climbing out my window, which was facing the sky. Cuts and brusies, that's all.
When we went back a few hours later to check out the car in the wrecking yard, you could see how well the frame held up to 4+ roll-overs and my father promptly bought another... he's on his 3rd now, also has a supra, my mom has an LS, and I traded my civic in for the IS.
my moron sister drives a Land Rover Country but she lives w/ the rest of the morons in LA
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I certainly would trust Toyota more so than a Subaru in an accident situation, but my main point is that while the WRX is fast it is a step down.

Much less luxury, comfort and engineering went into this car. It kinda reminds me of a much older vehicle due to the lack of refinement.

If you've got to have something faster than the IS300 and it's competitors then the frog may suit you, but if I want a lack of refinement then I get in my TR6.
http://www.geocities.com/ralittle2
 

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Originally posted by TMR IS300:
Why I won't buy another Subaru. The rear windows don't go down all the way. That just drives me nuts.
Agreed. I was so pleased to see is IS's disappear completely into the back doors.
 

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VVTIS, was that accident one where you'd expect an economy car to hold up better? You said a truck T-boned you, what kind of truck and how fast was it going? I'd certainly hate a car if it almost killed me, just wondering if another car woulda held up better.
About the WRX (safety notwithstanding), you guys are understating it's strengths - it's a total blast to drive hard - terrific steering and road feel, good brake feel, and a terrific motor, all currently going for about $22,500. For someone who can't afford a $32,000 car, it's a great buy.
 

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I was replying to the first post to ralittle's question of the absence of the sunroof, and my reasoning behind it. The truck was bigger than my subaru, but only an F150, I blame most of it on the stupid [email protected]@ driver but I wish the car would of held up better, I cannot reconstruct the accident tell you if under certain variables the outcome would have been differnt. Subaru will be coming out to look at the car so I will let yall in on the info then. There is also confusion with the rate of speed the guy who hit me was traveling so I am not sure. I am sure different cars would hold up under different situations, and the subaru did not. Also I have seen a few pics of the roof collapsing after being hit from the side, this may be the reason for the absence?? Subaru's supposedly receive one of the highest crash test rating and from the scene of the accident it should have been the lowest. Of course I will have hatred, that is why I am posting my opinion against the Subaru.
 

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VVTIS if it makes you feel better - after seeing Dateline Tuesday, the Ford F150 got slaughtered by their 40mph crash test - that looked awful! It's gonna kill sales, and there will be a TON of used ones up for sale soon. Vehicles like the F150 and the Subaru seem designed to survive the goverment's front end collision, rather than to really be safe.

Originally posted by VVTIS:
I was replying to the first post to ralittle's question of the absence of the sunroof, and my reasoning behind it. The truck was bigger than my subaru, but only an F150, I blame most of it on the stupid [email protected]@ driver but I wish the car would of held up better, I cannot reconstruct the accident tell you if under certain variables the outcome would have been differnt. Subaru will be coming out to look at the car so I will let yall in on the info then. There is also confusion with the rate of speed the guy who hit me was traveling so I am not sure. I am sure different cars would hold up under different situations, and the subaru did not. Also I have seen a few pics of the roof collapsing after being hit from the side, this may be the reason for the absence?? Subaru's supposedly receive one of the highest crash test rating and from the scene of the accident it should have been the lowest. Of course I will have hatred, that is why I am posting my opinion against the Subaru.
 

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Some interesting points here, but I'd like to make a few amendments to whats been said so far.

There is a structural reinforcement in the roof structure (basically a rollbar that you cant see) to increase torsional rigidity for better handling and increased protection in case of a rollover. The WRX also incorporates steel beams in the doors for side impact protection as well as dual airbags up front and side impact airbags standard equipment. A sunroof cannot be added due to the placement of the crossmember in the center of the roof adjoining the center pillars. The target audience of the WRX probably doesnt care for amenities such as a sunroof. Those that do will probably buy a car like the IS.

In addition,from what Subaru has learned from years of rally racing (WRC), that a 4-door has better structural integrity on harsh road conditions and accidents than a 2-door, which is why Subaru dropped the idea of having a 2-door model so they can be more competetive in the WRC as well as on the street. For those that really want a 2-door, Subaru may be introducing a 2-door SVX which may be based on the WRX platform for 2003. This is still only rumor in Motor Trend magazine.

As for styling, its debatable, to each his own. It's grown on me though. I like it more and more each day I wake up to it. I have to say the IS is a beautiful design as well but not EVERYONE likes the IS and ont everyone will like the WRX for sure. The IS much more refined than the WRX for sure, but its a different class of vehicle. The IS is a sporty luxury vehicle with lots of potential for speed and handling with its inline 6 and RWD platform (thank god its not FWD). On the other hand the WRX is a bare bones (even with its 6-disc in dash changer) street racer/off road racer, with all weather capabilities and room for a small family. Sure, its faster than an IS and thats what I paid for: A wolf in sheeps clothing with major guts under the hood and AWD. Its not all that smooth or quiet but I quickly forget that when i put the hammer down.

I prefer the notchiness of the shifter, I know EXACTLY when I'm putting it in gear. If any of you have ever driver a Ferrari you know what the notchiness is like. It's certainly not smooth but gets the job done. The IS's job is to be smooth, and that it is!

In summary, the IS300 and WRX are two totally different classes of vehicles built for completely different purposes and on totally different platforms. Both are awesome cars in their own ways, but neither can be deemed superior or inferior than the other because its just apples and oranges once again. Comes down to a matter of personal preference, needs, and taste.

Thanks for listening


Samir.
 
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