[yamaot]

I seen some racing on TV where the car is going into oversteering while the front tire maintain along with the track. So I would imagine even though you are taking a left turn, due to the oversteering, you have to turn your steering wheel to the RIGHT to countersteer the car.

question: What do you guys usually call this? drifting? 4 wheel turning? powersliding? countersteering? And how to you do that? can you do it with the IS300?

can someone with RWD knowledge describe each term above what they mean and how to achieve it. With only FWD experience, it's hard for me to imagine how to do that, plus after I buy the IS300, I would like to know how to do it and try....

thanks in advance

 

[AltezzaRoku]

Hey yamaot.. check out this site... click on the drifting menu in the left hand frame.. http://velocity.isfaster.com/frames/index.htm

Has some pretty cool info about drifting.
Drifting is usually done with a RWD car, when you go into a turn, hit the clutch, give it a little gas, then release the clutch to break your rear tires loose, then counter steer your front wheels to keep you evenly sliding through the turn.

Usually FWD cars require you to use the E-brake to lock the tires and slide through the turn...=) I'm sure someone else can go into more detail.

 

[Aleks]

May 2000 Issue of Super Street has a good article on drifting along with directions and pictures for both RWD and FWD cars
Aleks
'91 MR2 Turbo

 

[TEG]

My old Rx7 (heavily modified 1983) was a very oversteering car. Alot of the reason was the suspension tuning. Those old 1st generation Rx7s were known for "breaking the tail lose" pretty easily. They did really well on the racetrack even though the rear end was often swinging around (like a pendulum) around the turns. Older Porsche 911 were oversteer prone as well, but the problem with them was that it was alot harder to put them into a "controlled" drift. The 911 had a strong rear weight basis (rear engined) so the "pendulum" effect was much stronger than in the front engined Rx7.

I always said that my car liked to "fishtail"... I hadn't heard the term "drifting" until recently... It seems to have become popular in Japan in the last few years.

One secret to easy "fishtailing" or "drifting" is to use tires that are NOT too grippy... Ones that have a smooth transition between grip and slide. If your tires let go too suddenly then your "drifting" attempt can turn into an uncontrolled spin (or an accident if you try to do it on a road).

I think I heard that the IS tour cars had non-stock Eagle GA tires. Perhaps they used those (less grippy) tires (instead of Eagle GS-D or Potenza R040) because they were easier to put into a "controlled drift".

There are two main ways to start a car "drifting". One is to just "whip" the steering wheel to the side to "throw out the tail" and get the rear wheels sliding. The other is to apply enough engine power to start the rear wheels spinning while in a turn. Either technique takes some practice to get right. My Rx7 was modified to over 250hp so I could bring on engine powered oversteer "at will". I had lots of fun driving around twisty roads with the rear wheels "squirming around" hunting for traction and "countersteering" to keep going in the direction I needed to go.

It is pretty easy to get most cars into a drift situtation if you are driving on ice. The sensation is basically the same although everything seems to be happening in slow motion...

 

[HIBBoyScott]

http://streetracing.tiora.net/japan/drift/drift1.htm
http://velocity.isfaster.com/frames/index.htm

 

[yamaot]

wow, you guys are good, thanks for the info.

question: Would it be hard to have a automatic car to do "drifting"? Also how do I adjust the suspension in order to have a easier oversteer? Would it help if I put less grip tire in the back while keep the stock in the front?

thanks in advanced

 

[TEG]

Yeah, drifting in an auto would be alot harder to do. The torque converter and lack of "clutch popping" could spoil alot of your fun.

Yes, less grippy tires in the rear would help as well as a "beefier" rear sway bar.

Whatever you do - be careful. I would hate to see your wreck your IS300!

 

[S38]

Christ, all of you guys better go to a driving school before you kill someone.

Popping the clutch mid-corner? Can you say spin?

It is not necessary to do all that stuff to get a car to drift. Simply go fast enough through the corner to be a tad past the limit. It should, if it is a well-balanced car, drift evenly towards the exit point. If you think it is plowing a little, lift ever so slightly on the accelerator to lessen the traction in the back. This turns the front end in and you will feel the tail get light. If you do it too suddenly, the back will snap around on you.

Bottom line, braking and lifting increases traction in the front, accelerating/more power increases traction in the back.

A good place to practice this is a deserted parking lot or 25 mph offramp. Try to do a constant radius circle by modulating the throttle. Best bet is to attend a BMWCCA safety school. If they aren't full they will let in non-BMW's. It is only $45 for a whole day of instruction on emergency manuevers, etc.
www.bmwcca.org and look for local chapter link.

 

[S38]

One way they teach this is to make you drive in a circle but you can't move the steering wheel, you can only use the throttle to adjust the turn.

 

[Banannie]

cheapest and easiest way to set up a car for oversteer is to change the alignment. I'm not sure what is adjustable on the car, but toe out in the rear should increase the oversteer.

I'd suggest trying all this out either at a race school or autocross (latter being the least expensive).

I'd be very wary of trying this on an onramp or on the street, you can get out of control very easily, and without experience, you're going to have a very very tough time getting back in control without spinning.

My race car is a Honda S2000 which inherently oversteers right from the factory. Honda traditionally makes their cars neutral or sets them to understeer for safety reasons, so this is different for them. Too much oversteer can cause problems - I have heard more than one story of a death in a S2K because someone lost control on an onramp because they couldn't catch the car after it started drifting (oversteer), and I've heard quite a few of them have been totalled.

Learn the car in a controlled environment before you start playing in traffic - we don't want to see you get hurt!

search around for info on local autocrosses - you can get a more experienced driver to show you what the car can (and can't) do... www.scca.org may have some links.

And I came into the S2000 with no rear drive experience - it is much easier to induce oversteer in rear drive!

(by the way, from my fairly agressive multiple test drives so far, this car pushes (understeers) like a pig so you probably won't have the same problems without modifying the car as the S2000 owners have)

Have fun, and be safe!

Annie
Y2K S2K
Y2K Type R (for a few more days...)

 

[yamaot]

Thanks guys,

by the way, what is an "autocross", heard it many time in this forum, but don't know what it is. Thanks

 

[yamaot]

After reading all those links, seems like automatic is almost "impossible" to drift. Does anyone know whether a IS300 a good drifter? If not, how to modify it to make it easier to drift...with automatic.

thanks again

 

[TEG]

An autocross is a race against a clock on a closed course. Typically a club will rent a parking lot (or airport runway, etc) and set up a tight course with pylons. Typically you lose points (time added to the clock) if you hit any pylons. Usually autocrosses are low speed (e.g. run entirely in 2nd gear). You don't need any kind of a racing license to participate. Typical rules just require that you wear an approved helmet. There are ranked autocross competitions where results are published (you vs other drivers) for specific classes of cars.

 

[yamaot]

Thanks for the replys.

one more question

Does "Drifting" the fastest way to get around a corner? If not, why drifts? What is the fastest way to go around a corner in not by drifting?

TIA

 

[F=ma]

Many times, and more often that not even, drifting is not the fastest way through a corner. But it sure is fun as hell, which is probably why its popular.

The goal of driving through most corners is to exit with the highest speed. Another important task to keep in mind is to travel the least distance between multiple corners. A slower exit speed's negative results will compound if the straightaway that follows is long...


I would recommend getting a taut suspension, through some more agressive springs, and a beefy rear swaybar. If you're looking to experiment with oversteer, some even yank out their front swaybar... that'll definitely do the trick if you've got a 25mm rear or so...


On the side, I've only been to Auto-x's in parking lots, I'd love to see one on the runway, that'd be badass... I work at Hartsfield International (ATL), intermittently the busiest airport in the US... I'd love to get a couple of supercars out on those stretches... of course it'll never happen.



------------------
Kenny
3.2 TL

 

[TEG]

Yeah - "drifting" is more for fun, not to go faster.

Often times on race tracks they say that the fastest way through is when you keep a clean even line and don't upset the cars balance too much. But then someone comes along who seems to be full throttle or full brakes and nothing in between and seems to outdo the people trying to "conserve momentum". I guess there are alot of factors like how much fuel you are willing to burn, how much you want to torture the car, etc...

In my experience, the fastest way around a course is to make the course shorter (cut corners) as much as you can get away with before someone flags you...

 

[M3 EVO]

Drifting is just when you slide your tail out like everyone said but..there's no need to pop the clutch at all...I don't know why a lot of ppl do this but all you have to do is enter the corner at a certain speed...jolt your steering wheel towards the apex of the corner...your tail will likely slide out counter correct really fast and follow the racing line you wish to take around the corner with ur steering....it's very trickky to get the angle of approach right and it's different on a lot of cars...also..tyres...suspension etc makes a lot fo difference...definitely not recommended on the street....and also..u can do it in an auto but it's hard to 'keep on' sliding if you're not putting down power to keep the rear end lose as it goes around the corner. for hairpins a lot of racers use hten handbrake to bring the tail around faster or else the car will lose too mch speed...hope this helps...

drifting is only for fun thou..cuz you lose too much speed around corners. Power slide is more used with rallye cars in the WRC...they basically send all 4 wheels sliding and the car literally slides around corners...

 

[yamaot]

M3, thanks for the info

when you said that you need to put the power down to keep on sliding, are you saying you need to downshift to a lower gear to get more torque?

What's the difference between "power slide" and "Drifting"? How is "power slide" achieve? Does it help the turning speed?

Thanks

 

[TEG]

Once you are "drifting" you have enough lateral G-forces going to be sliding sideways along the tires. With a power slide you can be going more slowly but you use sudden engine power (bursts) to break the tires free and continue your "slide fest". Basically your are doing a "burnout" and "controlled fishtail" at the same time.

 

[TEG]

The best way to experience this in little danger is to drive aggressively in a deserted parking lot that is iced over (in a cold winter area). You will learn all about the behavior of your car at its limits that way. You could put really low quality (long life) tires on your car and get it to slide more easily. The IS300 tires are probably so grippy that (unless you are on ice) you would probably have to push it dangerously hard before you could get it to "drift".