What is a Progressive controlled system?

IS300AllShow · Sep 2, 2004

Progressive controlled is the same as a nitrous kit explained above but used with a progressive controller. A progressive controller can be fitted to almost any nitrous oxide system providing that the solenoids are constructed in such a way that they are able to pulse. When we say pulse we mean that the solenoids are continuously turned on and off in a pulsing manner which fires a small amount of nitrou sat a time. Good progressive controllers allow you to program the progression of which it lets nitrous flow through the solenoids. A typical setup would allow you to start with using a small amount on nitrous and then ending up with a constant flow or longer burst of nitrous as the rpm rises. Progressive controllers are used so that nitrous can be safely injected into the cars engine to create extra power from the start line. Without the progressive controller you can only fire nitrous oxide into the engine when the throttle is wide open and revs are high. When the system is activated and the car takes off, small amounts of nitrous will be pulsed into the engine and larger amounts as the rpm rises.

IS300AllShow · Feb 2, 2005

ok thru a series of posts and a few pm's back and forth Fargo and my self had this discusion about progressive controlers and how they worked. the following posts are that conversation.

IS300AllShow · Feb 2, 2005

fargo

just get a progressive controller,, your then find you can use a little bit more nitrous than you would with out, due to 'introduction' of nitrous to the engine.

IS300AllShow · Feb 2, 2005

IS300AllShow

sorry but that is really not true and not why a progressive controler is use. a progressive controller is used to bring on usable power when you need/ want it.

the fact that you bring the power on less then more does not change when the motor is going to give out. the motor can only handle so much and when that level is reached it is done progressive controller or not.

I would not recommend running more then a 100 shot on the stock block and it should be a wet kit. unless you are going to run a Venom kit which controls the fuel thru the injectors thru there own computer.

I have run a Venom kit and now run a Full NOS kit with all the trimings the basic kits come with most of what you need but I would recommend a few added pcs, Purge, pressure gage, bottle heater, limit switch, tranny cooler. those added things will make the kit complete.

if you want more then a 100 shot you might want to look at a different rought of power Turbo or S/C as after that you really need to address the internals of the stock motor. IMO

IS300AllShow · Feb 2, 2005

fargohave to disagree mr allshow..and heres why..

When you go progressive it allows even more power because the gas can be ramped in and build to the maximum which is always higher at higher RPM 
Now technically if you ran a multistage system although you would have less overall power through the range you could end up with the same overall power by bringing in the final stage at high enough RPM; 
BUT 
That final stage would be more harsh than if it had been brought in progressivly so would be more likely to be damaging and would have a lower limit. 
If you also take the extra heat often created by such harsh delivery into account then it does say a progressive can end up with more power before things go bang. 
So, lets just say you used enough stages, brought them in early enough for the additional heat created to disipate by the time you ended up at max rpm and max power then the two would be equal in total safe power output. 
There is a finite limit to the stress something can take, but the making of that stress has a big influence on the limit of it.
I'd hate to give it real world figures but you can raise the ceiling by roughly 15% on the examples where the engines have been taken to distruction, and thats just on straight hits without progressive.
Going by how they react to progressive youd expect it to be higher again
By using a progressive, you can give a little more simply due to the hit being less offensive...

Also what happens with a lot of nitrous systems is the initial lean out problem. With a progressive you can start off with less power per given application so the lean out is not severe enough to cause damage with severe cylinder pressures. . To much nitrous and power down low can cause damage also as the motor is not moving fast enough to relieve the pressure.


Its the same old story, "nitrous is nitrous is nitrous" people don't get that there can be very big differences in something as outwardly simple as a bottle, two solenoids and an injector, even without throwing in the progressive controls ! 
When making statements like that you seam to credit all nitrous systems with complete smoothness over the range, if only life were so simple ! Lets not forget there has to be a transitional stage, a point where the engine's just starting to feel the nitrous mixture.
What happens here affects everything

So in short, not only should you consider what the internals can take but also you should consider HOW you hit the internals with the nitrous. 
By using a progressive, you can give a little more simply due to the hit being less offensive.

IS300AllShow · Feb 2, 2005

IS300AllShow Well fargo don't think we have met so no need for the MR.

Again I will tell you that is wrong but may be you know more then the people at NOS who designed the Nitrous set-up for my car. and when the topic of the progressive controller came up this is what I was told.

The controller is used not to get more power. but to bring the power in where needed. say in a large turbo app. were you are trying to make up for large lag. Then you run the system in what would be reverse to what you decribed where you would actually tapper off the nitrous as your turbo spooled.

but what do I know I have only run 2 different systems in my IS. one on the 2jz with well over 20 bottles at 100 shot. and now the 70 shot single fogger NOS kit that I run on the Turboed V-8 in my car.

If you want to spend your money on a progressive controller go for it but that does not change the amount of stress that the motor can handle. next you will tell me how a direct port kit is better then a single fogger kit when you run less then 175 shot right.[/QUOTE]

IS300AllShow · Feb 2, 2005

fargo Sorry MR allshow lol dont know your name was a tongue in cheek MR...... wasnt my intention to offend you,, i was only putting some info on the table for the original qeustion of how much nitrous the IS can handle..

You mention using nitrous as an anti lag tool,, and i agree totally with what you have said about that.

However, i'll sum up what i posted previous into this sentance..
Maximum safe nitrous use is not only governed by what your internals can take but goes hand in hand with HOW the nitrous is delivered..
This is backed up with real life case's, not just talk..

Also with regards to NOS systems,, this is the same company that uses INDUSTRIAL solonoids (not designed for pulsing via a controller), that also flows the nitrous round 2 lots of 90degree bends, who's fogger does not atomise the fuel/nitrous properly.
Not having a pop at you for choosing NOS,and it seems your happy, just pointing out some areas for you to think about.

IS300AllShow · Feb 2, 2005

IS300AllShow 
ok 1st sorry I took the mr the wrong way I have posted my name I don't know how many times

so with that my name is Henry

as for the progressive controller situation it was not designed for the ablity to let you run more power period if you feel that it was that is cool but you need to remember that there are people that will read what you worte in your post months after you worte it take it for gold and then say well this guy was running a 175 shot so if I add a progressive controller I can add 15% to that then when they blow there motor you get this.

"Man nirtous sucks it will just blow your motor"

now I think we can both agree that that nitrous is a great tool in gaining power but like any tool if the "tool" setting it up or buying just the basic kit and not getting a properly set-up kit by any company is the real problem.

you talk about internals but I will tell you that the fuel pump in the IS300 will give you problems before the internals will. and here is a little stistic I found a while back and not from NOS 85% of all motor failures due to nitrous are fuel related and not N20 related.

as for my chose with NOS prior to there kit I ran a Venom Dry kit if you want to call it that but didn't like the fact that I could not control the fuel in the system. so when I did the V-8 swap I contacted NOS told them my plans and after hours of of talking with them, 2 different shopes that only do nirtous installs and have for the past 15+ years I and NOS came up with the perfect kit for the IS400T project.

I think if you would have had a chance to seen the car at SEMA in the NOS booth you may understand everything that has gone into the thought behide the whole set-up that is in my car. but I know that everyone out there is not going to go to the extent that was taken in mine and yours to make sure the kit is safe.

Hope there are no hard feelings and didn't mean to affend in my post just don't want someone to blow there shit up and say it was because of something they read on IS300.net

Henry

IS300AllShow · Feb 2, 2005

fargo 

AH Mr Henry lol. my names paul by the way..

Yep i hear ya man,, nitrous is pig when used incorectly.. and there are a lot of myths and prejudices against the stuff.. you dont know how many times ive been asked "does the car shake like in fast and furious" lmao.

I appreciate that you have got some sound advice re your install and if its working then its all good in the hood..

I could however show you factually info about NOS systems to the contrary, let me know..

Yes, im aware that a progressive is not simply a tool to get more out, its more a by product of its intended use.. can you at least see the truth in what i said about how important it is in HOW you deliver the nitrous, and that proper delivery can (and does) yeild an increase..

Now in real world terms for those that simply want a hit of nitrous, that extra '15%' aint gona make a blind bit of difference, but put it on the strip and that 15% could be a 1st place..
Yes your right about the fueling issues,, when i mention internals perhaps i was being non specific..
but on that same note abotu fuel, with NOS foggers, there is a problem that the fuel/nitrous mix does not get atomise correctly and so you can end up with lean conditions..ask to see a spray pattern as it comes out of the fogger,, then i'll show you another type that does it correctly..

I would hope that people are not as stupid simply reading soem info on a forum and taking that as gospol,, i would hope that they ask questions do there own proper research..

anyways, its good to talk and discuss shit like this without it decending into a slanging match...

all this info should be posted up, so that those who think its the gospel can haev some more food for thought..

IS300AllShow · Feb 2, 2005

IS300AllShow 
Paul I know first hand how people on this site read and take what is posted as gospol. that is why I limit what I post and in a specif situation I would rather pm someone advice that way they get everything.

The reason I took this to pm was to avoid a slining match as for the NOS kit and not atomizing I will dis agree but with that said they offer several different nossel set-ups and if you use the wrong ones you will get different results bottle pressure is also a huge issue in this. other factors include wither or not you are dealing with a boosted ap or not.

I will agree that when properly set-up a progressive controller can yeild better results I am not trying to argue that. but rather trying to make the point that just because you have the controller does not mean you have a well set-up and safe kit. that I think we can both agree on.

IS300AllShow · Feb 2, 2005

ok well in the end both Paul and I agree that

A progressive controler is a great tool to help you get the most out of a nitrous set-up. but is only one part of a well set-up and safe running system

Special thanks to fargo(Paul) for his input in this conversation

OKCIS · Feb 3, 2005

OKCIS

Just to kind of add to this you are both actually right

A progressive system will do 2 things for you it will add the nitrous at a pace that isnt as intrusive to the engine and in turn you can bump the spray up a little bit more. (i wouldnt try to go up to 150 on an IS300 though that suicide) However its ORIGINAL design was to make it spray hardest at where it was needed the most.

Now if you talk to NOS or NX they may tell you different as far as the point Fargo is trying to make cause its not what it was intended for but he is right it has been proven on the race scene. I see it all the time at the track on alot of the mustangs in the 10.5 class and there is guys running everyweekend spraying insane amounts of nitrous running mid 7's so it works.

I dont know if it would really be worth putting on an IS though cause you gotta think there is a huge difference in what we are spraying and what they are spraying. I just know my 125 wet shot works just fine with no problems at all so im not touching it.

What is a Progressive controlled system?

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