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i know this belongs in the "go faster" thread...but what if
you can make this work....a fully custom turbo kit...i believe that with the knowledge known about boosting this car and boosting in general....would this not be achievable.??
...for those who want a just slightly quicker over all is300 ..and not a beast with 300whp ..i think this would be perfect

....actually think about this without passing judgement until you have fully thought it out...id dont believe the idea is to farfetched....please post thoughts and ideas...i know for the most part..the comments will be neg...but since im gonna most likely be the test dummy on my own project...as soon as i renew my warranty...just fill me in on what you would do instead??

-used toyomoto log mani. .................400$
-small turbo.. something like a garrett t3/t04e (found some for 600$)
-small FMIC....................................400$ or soo
-universal intake with filter-...............50$
-all intercooler piping custom - ............500$? or less
-custom 3'' inch exhaust - 300$ any muffler shop is capable
-all fittings,couplers, gaskers, bolts etc....200$
-any universal BOV(up to 8psi) .......200$
-safc- .......................................300$
-tuning and dyno.. .......................100$
** basically all the parts for under 3k..install not included***
at least piecing this kit together would be faster then others..cheaper alternatives.!!:)

with this setup...low boost is easily attainable...i think soemthing along the lines of 6psi woull be good...anything over that would be over done....since the kit would provide such low boost.. Inplace of any major EMS...i believe that an safc would be suffiecient...being that it controls air/fuel...and this low boost shouldnt call for anything more then a good a/f tune...maybe running a lil on the rich side for security would be safest...but since with all forced induction detonation is the enemy...with an safc i believe it would solve any complications.. this kit would be very upgradeable if desired...
basically you build your dream car...but instead of saving for a lifetime....you start off with boost...then slowly as you save up replace the parts that you want to ...or go with a heavy duty EMS to tune correctly and safely raise the boost level....
i know with all F/I you run the risk of components gone bad ...but i think this could and will work....
..mods move it if need be...but i think this is more aimed toward the N/A crowd thanks
:) :) :) thanks for taking the time to read this..sorry if it was a waste fo your time....i would just like this to spark a good discussion of cheaper alternatives (i know i said cheaper and i know "theres no cheap boosting the IS" belive me i know...ive been reading for ever")
maybe someone with a little more(alot more then me) knowledge could chime in and tell me exactly why this wouldnt work...thanks you all for your unbiased opinions....
***discuss***
 

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Its a dream my friend (jk)

The parts list is cool, but the EMS I'm sure people will harp on.
First off if you've been "reading it forever" then you'd ommit the SAFC part.

With a LMS Pro street the car can supposidly handle 6.5lbs stock EMS and fuel system, but a) no one has fessed up how so b) I would have to guess that its becuase the ECU is really that damn smart putting what the O2 sensors see with all the other information and that the 6.5 is read after the blower, and not after the intercooler were the psi will drop some, which may be why that Joey dude blew his motor by removing the intercooler.

With the turbo kit, you'll be using a drop pipe that will misplace the O2 sensors which are basically shitty narrow bands, but work. With that in mind, you'll have to run some kind of box that sims them (sims do not condition, they bullshit, so I'm currious about LMS pro streats running aftermarket headers), and then the sh*t list starts on from there, so at least in your parts list line up instead of having AFC you should have TE black box and some other kind of tuneable EMS piggy or standalone and aslo injectors if your not boosting the fuel pressure. You can be a guinea pig and be the first turbo to use the LMS "I-manage".

Best of luck.

B.
 

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im a N/A guy...but why would he have to use aftermarket injectors?? ithought the stock ones can handle very well untill like 350whp or something? what if he substitutes the safc for an emanage by greddy then gets it tuned and makes good maps i think this setup will run fine...? doesnt the SP1 kit come with a black box only and not with a tuneable EMS piggy back or standalone...

IMHO and again i really dont know boost...but this kit would work with the help from someone in the tuning department....if you get a good map using a emanage this setup will work...probly only accomplashing(sp?) like 250whp at most...but none the less i think it would work?
DAS should get in here and set us all str8...he is pretty optomistic on all grounds for boost...

what if you got this setup (and like mentioned above) just tuned the A/F.... since its not really creating "that much boost" you think the engine would blow up lol???? even if the a/f set to very rich...so that all the extra air created by the turbo would be spoken for with the extra fuel ...this wouldnt work without EMS...????
what would happen if you had no EMS?
would the car perform ?
or would it just not perform to its potential..?
or would it just blow up? lol (again im an N/A guy kinda standing up for a buddy lol)
 

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ill help you out as much as possible since im in the process of piecing my own kit and have done a ton of reading using the search.....
-your missing a wastegate,
-you can actually get a large fmic for less than $400(dunno bout quality tho, but worth a try)
-instead of s-afc you could use emanage as an alternative to standalone(won't work as well but cheaper)
-to solve the close loop problem you could use the split second esc(but i cant seem to find a place that sells it :( )or use te fuel conditioner but i believe it's more expensive, not shure but i think it does maybe the same as what the split second does?
-i don't believe you need to upgrade fuel for a low 3xx whp setup?
-to be on the safe side i would also get a headgasket and arp headstuds along with a boost controller to prevent boost spike?
- i also have someone that is going to make ic piping for me for less than $500;)
-you need a down pipe too
 

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The injectors can handle it but i'm pretty sure you have to up the pressure a GOOD bit to get the right flow rate. So that needs to be taken into consideration too.
 

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^^ and if you do that, you need a FPR, or a special tune to the emanage but would probably limmit your hp and have shitty driving in vacuum because it is harder to maintain reliable injector output with small short pulses.

i don't believe you need to upgrade fuel for a low 3xx whp setup
Your going to need something, another inline fuel pump or FMU of sometype.

to solve the close loop problem you could use the split second esc
The promoter of this fix ultimately gave up, because this is not a fix for the ECU learning.

doesnt the SP1 kit come with a black box only and not with a tuneable EMS piggy back or standalone
That is becuase the FPR does the hard part of tuning, the stock ECU maps and the fuel conditioner (black box) cover the little things (ECU injector cycle, black box stuff like the misplaced O2s and other codes).

This is all IMO

B.
 

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....so with all that being said^^^ you need to add an FPR,another fuel pump,
fuel cond.,waste gate, head gaskets, arp headstuds.guages and controller...so basically there is no cheaper turbo kit..lol....since ure gonna have to be getting all this anyways...why not just up the whp.. if only there was a way....bolt on and go...
 

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Honestly TE right now has the best bang for your buck, you may if you build it yourself wind up maybe eh what 800 bucks cheaper than their kit? but probably also have about 50 HP less not to mention the methods aren't as proven. For 800 bucks or so i'd spend it for some more power + reliability.


Yes BlackSportD i did mean a FPR i dunno why i didn't say that. LOL ya just run a constant 80 lbs of pressure ot them injectors, TALLY HO!!! lmao no that's a given. But Yes it's possible, and i belive there are maybe 2 people here that have built their own kits but their names are eluding me right now. But if i remember correctly they had alot of headaches with doing it that way and it took them months if not years to get it right. AH Doublins was one of them.
 

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IceCold4x4 said:
Honestly TE right now has the best bang for your buck, you may if you build it yourself wind up maybe eh what 800 bucks cheaper than their kit? but probably also have about 50 HP less not to mention the methods aren't as proven. For 800 bucks or so i'd spend it for some more power + reliability.


Yes BlackSportD i did mean a FPR i dunno why i didn't say that. LOL ya just run a constant 80 lbs of pressure ot them injectors, TALLY HO!!! lmao no that's a given. But Yes it's possible, and i belive there are maybe 2 people here that have built their own kits but their names are eluding me right now. But if i remember correctly they had alot of headaches with doing it that way and it took them months if not years to get it right. AH Doublins was one of them.

i agree with maybe saving at most $800 but i disagree with having 50whp less since not everyone will dyno at so and so whp with the same car, who's to say he wouldn't get the same or better with their own kit instead of the TE?the only real advantage that can come from doing your own kit is learning more about the car than you already knew
 

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and i belive there are maybe 2 people here that have built their own kits but their names are eluding me right now.
There are a few, but my favorite is Setinel's by far. Its original IMO, the custom kits I've seen look like all the others, but Setinal's is twin turbo, water/air intercooled and his choice in gauges, its like he went to the books and choose what would work best, and not what everyone else does either for looks, lack of originallity or for dyno queen props.


ARP headstuds... why not just up the whp.. if only there was a way....bolt on and go...
The headstuds I don't think the entry TE kit comes with those, they may not be needed, but just like an oil cooler, maybe a good thing to do for the long run.

Bolt and go, thats LMS's catch line for the Pro Street kit, and it seems for the bolt and go the limmit is 230'ish to the wheels. Then again you could call the S1 kit bolt and go also. If your talking about bumping the hp on teh S1 kit, then your going to have to cross the line of what makes it affordable by throwing down on injectors and EMS, assuming the fuel conditioner is what also prevents ECU learning.

I hope I'm not coming off arrogant, just bouncing off stuff I've seen around on .net.

B.
 

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no you make sense...^^...what about 230 to the wheels..is that the limit? or can you 3" the exhaust all the way through for some more power...? would the HP accomplished by the exhaust contradict the 230 whp limit with the bolt on and go theory
(or new EMS)
 

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BlackSportD said:
The promoter of this fix ultimately gave up, because this is not a fix for the ECU learning.

can somebody find a thread to where this actually happened because from what i've read it does work but i've been hearing it doesn't so it's kinda confusing :( from wat i've read the splitsec esc goes into open loop once it senses boost and i have reason to believe it does work since my cousin was running it with an emanage on a sc'd IS....but i've never discussed it with him to know....
 

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or can you 3" the exhaust all the way through for some more power...? would the HP accomplished by the exhaust contradict the 230 whp limit with the bolt on and go theory
^^ Thats a good question. Suposidly an LMS pro street will make a more power with exhuast mods even though the readable boost is lower due to an assortment of reasons. I'm just curious how the IS is living through this "6.5"lbs of boost.
IceCold4x4 had posted a long time ago what the MAF sensor votage limmit was, and I can't remember what it was, but that it was well under what 6.5lbs of boost should push it too, but then again that was math applied to it, sh*t, how the hell can our MAF sense boost any how, its not flowing faster, its compressed,and its hotter than NA air and by the very nature of how a MAF works, it can't sense compressed air, just flow. OEM boosted cars with MAFs have base maps for boost and thats why they don't blow up, but ours???
So I was thinking its the O2 sensors that save the day by taking pretty much a/f ratio readings (narrow band, not as great as the all mighty wideband but good enough for most all OEM cars), and maybe combining it with detination readings and making the car run richer than what its set to do. But if this is true, the second you put a aftermarket header set up on the IS messing up the O2 placement a and alterations that cats make thus having to use a SIM, that should spell boom boom for the Pro Street kit, but I think there are a few peeps running that kit with aftermarket headers, maybe they can pipe up. This is all with the assumption that SIMs simulate O2 voltage, not condition it. And maybe also the 6.5 is read after the blower before the intercooler, give it a 1.5psi drop from the intercooler and its a 5 to4.5psi reading that the cylinders have to worry about (and when you do the psi=hp math made by all the kits I think 5psi explains better the 230rwhp made by the kit) and would be much easier for the car to live with than the 7psi that the turbo kits use to make nearly 320wrhp and require all the extra "stuff" (and I am taking into consideration the parasitic loss from supercharges)

All this and still not throwing a CEL, its pretty crazy. Honestly I think with the right NA mods and tuning, you can put 215+ with a very well rounded power curve to the wheels if not more. I'd like to see YogiTRD race a Pro Street. If your going to go boost might as well reach the 320rwhp mark which comes at a much better price tag these days than before. The advantage the ProStreet has in this case against NA is that the ProStreet can make the 230 to the wheels and be kept quiet, as compared to a screaming heavely modded NA car.

Oh yeah and the
"would the HP accomplished by the exhaust contradict the 230 whp limit with the bolt on and go theory"
There a ways to get more hp without needing to increase the fuel output. Making the rotational mass lighter and maybe cam gears and exhaust with a supercharge will do this by taking some of the load off the engine to exhuast out, but if this crosses the line into bringing more air in the same intake stroke, or with better cooling of the intake air will make the charge denser, and thus more fuel needed, so with a mod like that, your fuel system and sensing system would have to be up to the challenge.

B.
 

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lexluger180 said:
can somebody find a thread to where this actually happened because from what i've read it does work but i've been hearing it doesn't so it's kinda confusing :( from wat i've read the splitsec esc goes into open loop once it senses boost and i have reason to believe it does work since my cousin was running it with an emanage on a sc'd IS....but i've never discussed it with him to know....
I've been looking for this post and haven't found it. Its very very old, maybe left behind with the old .net.

B.
 

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^^^^ yea i can't find it.... i'm thinking it doesn't even exists and think someone could be talking out their tailpipe but maybe someone can chime in?
 

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lexluger180 said:
i have reason to believe it does work since my cousin was running it with an emanage on a sc'd IS....but i've never discussed it with him to know....
it was NEVER connected...when I got the car, it was just sitting in the trunk....

BigDaddyRich, Sentinel, and a few others use it and swear by it...SEARCH harder... :p
 

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BlackSportD said:
. Honestly I think with the right NA mods and tuning, you can put 215+ with a very well rounded power curve to the wheels if not more. I'd like to see YogiTRD race a Pro Street. If your going to go boost might as well reach the 320rwhp mark which comes at a much better price tag these days than before. The advantage the ProStreet has in this case against NA is that the ProStreet can make the 230 to the wheels and be kept quiet, as compared to a screaming heavely modded NA car.

not sure what your trying to say^^^ so are you siding with a heavily modded N/A? or the entry level blower?....or are you saying there basically the same?...couple months back...i think.. search guillermo...either he has this blower...or hes a heavy modded car and raced the S/C IS....well either one...there was a couple vids up...
5spd heavy modded vs. eshift w/ pro street only
...from a dig it was even till 40 then the s/c pulled hard like 2-3 cars...from a 40 roll...by 55mph the s/c pulled well ahead.....so even though the s/c is putting 15whp more(give or take a couple hp) its still faster theng oing the N/A route...
i believe...i could be wrong....



i went to LMWs website and there pro street comes with no EMS...why can this be done for a turbo setup..? or maybe it can be done...as stated in you last post...keeping the psi lower then 6.5? i think it could work...but then again im optomistic :)
 

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What i had mentioned earlier was a tad wrong. The MAF can not sense boost you are correct but when you boost air you are increasing the velocity and the maf senses the mass of air passing by it. At a certain mass of air passes through it it maxes out at .5 volts and it can not read anymore air, this will trip a CEL. So when it hit's .5 volts then you must clamp this signal to .5 volts and run a map from there on up in boost but in my opinion for saftey there should be away to measure boost forwhatever controls the fuel from there.

Yes O2 Sims do exactly that they Simulate the correct readings. I belive the prostreet gets by my increasing the fuel pressure along with boost. So technically it doesn't have a EMS.

Bare mimimum you would need as far as management in my opinon is a Emanage, and well with a Emanage Ultimate being only about 600 bucks or less i belive actually. YOu could with a emange ultimate be able to actually control spark timing too. And even get rid of speed limiters and what not that are easier to run into boost with, even raise rev limits which i would imagine an extra 500 rpms under boost in every gear would give BIG payoffs.
 

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lexluger180 said:
^^^^ yea i can't find it.... i'm thinking it doesn't even exists and think someone could be talking out their tailpipe but maybe someone can chime in?
I've read the post before. It went on for pages and pages of arguement, then dissapeared, and then dug up wayyyyy later by the dude the started the thread, pretty much just saying "It doesn't work."

SRT has reported that some cars don't have learning issues with emanage, some do. So with that being said it could be wiring, or the fuzzy logic combined with the driver, or the wiring, or maybe that 01's are so damn different ECU wise the 02+. I'd be curious to see if the guys running the ESC are probably 01s, or its not the full story, they are running other mods to the ECU.

but when you boost air you are increasing the velocity and the maf senses the mass of air passing by it
By its cooling effects on the MAF yes, but boosted air is hotter, so more air is still sneaking by the MAF unacounted for, and the O2s have to pic up the load on telling the ECU that the car is running lean. The O2s are basically second opinion doctors.

I belive the prostreet gets by my increasing the fuel pressure along with boost
Maybe you are thinking of the Super Street that uses the FMU "I-manage". The Pro street doesn't have jack. The OEM fuel pump does not "raise" pressure, just maintians the stock pressure as much as possible. Its the injectors working overtime that provides the fuel.

so even though the s/c is putting 15whp more(give or take a couple hp) its still faster theng oing the N/A route...
I really try not to take sides becuase a) its just my opinion and I know others have different goals, hell I've stood up for the blowers on some accounts. b) its people's livelyhoods

but in regards to that race, I wouldn't call Malek's IS very modded, its IS.net typical NA modded (CAI, typical H/E with a semi-black box). YogiTRD with all his mods making the large and broad power band that he has (killing an S2000 with passengers) I think would give a much better fight.

All in all I'm siding with both, how you say? NA can be fast is what I'm saying, and the blower can be fast too, but... somewhat Luxury over what some (most importantly the cops) would consider ricy, the NA modded car (loud, obvious aftermarket exhuast sticking out ect.)

why can't this be done for a turbo setup..? or maybe it can be done...as stated in you last post...keeping the psi lower then 6.5? i think it could work...but then again im optomistic
Stating in my last post that 6.5 is what LMW/S claims, but where is that reading taken? It makes all the difference if the car is smart enough for a "real" 6.5 or 6.5 pre intercooler. I think the car can handle 4psi (at the throttle body) becuase the ECU should be able to magane breathing more than the 14.7psi sea level air pressure, it should understand that at times there can be a shit load of air coming in NA (Death Valley). And again I think if its not the MAF sensor doing this its the O2s giving their second and diffinetive opinion.
If you go turbo, those O2s are rendered innefective by not being able to place them in perfect OEM geometry and/or the cats being removed changing the exhaust characteristics, those altered characteristics is what the EOM O2s are tuned for to keep our car LEV2. Your "second opinion" O2s take a hike because they start crying making the ECU do its CEL and limp mode crap. I'd like to hear of a black box that conditions the O2 signals, not SIMs them, that would be a selling point for me. Our ECU is a bitch when you treat her like one trying to manhandle everything like an OBD1, treat her like a ho and maybe you can pimp manipulate her... I'd like to know that boosting the car its still running with the amount of "sight" that OEM thinks necessary, not blindly with the MAF and base maps for temperture conditions. (ie: its a selling point and something to gloat about that some of the TEC3 settups here are plugged into Widebands to "self tune".)

B.
 
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