VVT-i VS. VTEC ?...

When Toyota sells an engine that makes 240 hp out of 2.0L, then I'll agree. How about 260 hp out of that CL 3.0L V6? When I test drove the Celica GT-S, the sound coming out of that engine at 7500 rpm made me cringe - that motor didn't sound happy - nothing like the sweet sounds from a VTEC motor at 8000 rpm.

Originally posted by Daniel:
But yes, vvt-i and vvtl-i are better than VTEC.[/B]

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What I meant is that the vvti vvtl-i technology is better, more advance then vtec, although this does not mean Toyota's engine is going to outperform a Honda vtec engine. You got to agree that vtec is old and is not a very efficient method comparing to vvti, vvtl-i, double-vanos, and other continuous valve timing system, but your example is perfect at showing how good Honda is when it comes to building engine. They can use an old technology and build one of the best, if not the best, engine in the market right now. I just cannot imagine what will happen to S2000 engine if Honda implement something similar to vvtl-i. 280hp or more on a 2-liter?
Now Toyota should buy out Yamaha, then they will have a good chance competing with Honda.

vtec-i is coming out soon

Ok, point taken. While the Celica engine gets raspy at high revs, the IS300 engine is silky smooth at redline. They need a lighter aluminum block for 50/50 weight balance, and a 5 speed manual, and the IS300 would be perfect. They need to do it quickly too, before Honda gets their act together and builds their RWD sedan, or BMW fixes the 3 series steering.

Originally posted by Daniel:
What I meant is that the vvti vvtl-i technology is better, more advance then vtec, although this does not mean Toyota's engine is going to outperform a Honda vtec engine. You got to agree that vtec is old and is not a very efficient method comparing to vvti, vvtl-i, double-vanos, and other continuous valve timing system, but your example is perfect at showing how good Honda is when it comes to building engine. They can use an old technology and build one of the best, if not the best, engine in the market right now. I just cannot imagine what will happen to S2000 engine if Honda implement something similar to vvtl-i. 280hp or more on a 2-liter?
Now Toyota should buy out Yamaha, then they will have a good chance competing with Honda.

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Why do I get a funny feeling that you don't know what you're talking about? Cites please.

Originally posted by IS300GTE:
Honda was neither the inventer, nor the first to experiment with variable valve timing.

VVTI is better than VTEC, because it's adjustment period is throughout the entire rpm band, instead of around 4500(approx), like when hondas VTEC will kick in. flexibility for optimum performance is the difference, toyota has it, honda does not.

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I don't care if you are from Mars. What you said was wrong and I made a correction. No hard feelings.

Originally posted by HIBBoyScott:
Kota, you shouldn't be taking offense at any comment anyway.

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Originally posted by Chiphead:
I don't care if you are from Mars. What you said was wrong and I made a correction. No hard feelings.

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Mind telling me what you're talking about? What am I wrong about? And the quote you provided-I thought you were pissed because I said something about the Japanese not inventing anything so you saw it as some racist comment. I'm just saying that I am Japanese, so if it's racist then I am being one against my own race, and to me that makes no sense.

I'm speaking very specifically - the Celica engine sounds like it's straining at high rpm, while the GSR/Type R/Civic Si engines sound like Formula car engines at 8000 rpm. I noticed this difference, as did many car magazines. Some people may like that F1 sound, some don't - like women.

Originally posted by HIBBoyScott:
Your argument about engine sound holds no water. The old school big V8s sound better than the engines today...that doesn't mean they were better, does it? Even the current big engines in domestics sound better than the imports. I still don't want a domestic though.

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HIB I'm talking about the your bs claim "the Japanese people don't invent". If you don't know what you're talking about, then don't act like you know. Go to a library for christ sake.

[This message has been edited by Chiphead (edited November 11, 2000).]

Originally posted by Chiphead:
HIB I'm talking about "the Japanese people don't invent" bs.

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Sorry, I don't *literally* mean that they don't invent anything. What I mean is that when you look at things that the Japanese are known for, it wasn't really invented by them. They just took it one step further and perfected it. Does that clear up my statement?

Originally posted by Chiphead:
HIB I'm talking about the your bs claim "the Japanese people don't invent". If you don't know what you're talking about, then don't act like you know. Go to a library for christ sake.

[This message has been edited by Chiphead (edited November 11, 2000).]

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After your edit it sounds like you are getting more and more bent out of shape. Calm down dude.

My take is that the Americans are famous for their "Yankee Ingenuity" whereas the Japanese are known for taking the orginal concept/idea and refining it..... However, it cuts both ways. The Japanese have invented their fair share technological marvels...
Eric....

[This message has been edited by EricK (edited November 11, 2000).]

http://patents.uspto.gov/access/search-bool.html

Under select Database, choose "all"
Under term 1 type in "jp"
Under Field 1 choose "Inventor Country"
Click on "Search"

[This message has been edited by Chiphead (edited November 11, 2000).]

Originally posted by Chiphead:


You should see 404947 patents.

Any questions?

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Yes, what exactly are all these things implemented in. I don't have time to click through 404947 links, so please tell me. You yourself said the only noteworthy invention that the Japanese made was the CD. Those are the types of things I'm talking about. I have a bunch of Sony stuff sitting in my house. I am quite sure that Sony invented a lot of things that are currently used in these things to make them better, but the base item was not invented by them.

well aren't we sensitive

http://www.cnn.com/ASIANOW/time/magazine/2000/0501/japan.inventor.html

It says Japanese scientists are encouraged to research marketable ideas. So yes they do a lot of improving, but there is no denying that they *do* invent.

Originally posted by Chiphead:


It says Japanese scientists are encouraged to research marketable ideas. So yes they do a lot of improving, but there is no denying that they *do* invent.

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I have no idea why you are arguing the point that the Japanese *do* invent. Try reading my post after you tell me to go to the library cuz I don't know anything. It says right there in plain English what I meant by my first statement about the Japanese not inventing. I have no idea how to explain what I meant more clearly than I already have.

http://www.jpo-miti.go.jp/shoukaie/judaie.htm

[This message has been edited by Chiphead (edited November 11, 2000).]

Originally posted by Chiphead:
"The Japs never invented nothing." Your words, not mine. There's a saying "All big things grow from little things."

http://www.jpo-miti.go.jp/shoukaie/judaie.htm

[This message has been edited by Chiphead (edited November 11, 2000).]

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Maybe you can't find this post that I made so I'll put it here for you.
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Sorry, I don't *literally* mean that they don't invent anything. What I mean is that when you look at things that the Japanese are known for, it wasn't really invented by them. They just took it one step further and perfected it. Does that clear up my statement?
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Perhaps you missed it or something, I have no idea. If you still don't get where I'm coming from then I give up trying to explain already.