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Chocolate Goodness
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I don't coincide with this strategy for the entire line-up as the demographics for each vehicle are different. They CAN'T genrealize something like that if they wan to be competible. For Lexus for example, that strategy would apply to an ES, but not for an IS where they are targeting a younger, horsepower hungry, crowd. The same for the Toyota brand in itself. You cannot follow the same strategy for the Camry and say the Matrix. I agree that most Camry buyers won't place HP so high on their decision variables. But for the Matrix it would be a completely different story. Toyota is smart, I hope they do the right thing.
 

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"You have to have an IS 300 that's believable as a performance car before you go about making an M3 type of car," Press said. "The problem in taking on BMW is that they've refined that art. We can't do it, because it's there already. We have to do our own thing."

I think they have conceded defeat...
 

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Wasn't Nissan geared more towards performance while Toyota towards luxury just as BMW concentrates on handling while Mercedes Benz is more for luxury and ride quality.... I think Audi is right in the middle...
Eric.....
 

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Trovador said:
I don't coincide with this strategy for the entire line-up as the demographics for each vehicle are different. They CAN'T genrealize something like that if they wan to be competible. For Lexus for example, that strategy would apply to an ES, but not for an IS where they are targeting a younger, horsepower hungry, crowd. The same for the Toyota brand in itself. You cannot follow the same strategy for the Camry and say the Matrix. I agree that most Camry buyers won't place HP so high on their decision variables. But for the Matrix it would be a completely different story. Toyota is smart, I hope they do the right thing.
Quite to the contrary, I think Toyota made a mistake playing the horsepower game with the Matrix XRS. Toyota wanted to (and did) trumpet180 HORSEPOWER in Matrix advertisements. Alas, the combination of a quasi-microvan with a Celica rev-motor is not a happy one. A well-engineered, supercharged version of the non-VVTi base engine would have been a better choice for most Toyota customers. Moreover, I think such an engine would have made the AWD Matrix a respectable performer instead of the slug that it is.

The Lexus IS is another interesting question. Personally, I believe if Lexus would offer the 4.3 Liter V-8 with a manual that ninety-five percent of the performance hounds would be satified. I really don't think that Toyota will ever match the manual with an eight cylinder.

uberchuckie said:
"You have to have an IS 300 that's believable as a performance car before you go about making an M3 type of car," Press said. "The problem in taking on BMW is that they've refined that art. We can't do it, because it's there already. We have to do our own thing."

I think they have conceded defeat...
This part of the article caught my eye too. Reading between the lines, I added a little to the below version.

"You have to have an IS 300 that's ALMOST believable as a performance car before you EVEN START TO THINK about making an M3 type of car," Press said. "The problem in taking on BMW is that they've refined that art. We can't do it AND STILL MAKE MONEY, because it's there already.AND WE HAVE TO START FROM SCRATCH We have to do our own thing."
 

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WTF???????? This is insane!!!! Nissan's 3.5L V6 and Honda's 3.2L V6 both achieve better fuel economy than Toyota's 3.0L I6, while delivering much more hp and torque. So that's plain bullshit over their inability to deliver a competitive engine with decent fuel economy as well as power. They wait forever to introduce new engines. I think the new 4.0L V6 from the new 4Runner (which is an excellent engine), should be dropped into the Avalon and other bigger vehicles. The 4.7L V8 should be juiced up with VVTi to get more (flatter) torque, more horsepower, and yet more mpg. They have to realize that people care more about power and performance than emissions. Besides, if their cars are producing the same emissions as others, but much less horsepower, then it makes no choose them over...
 

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CRB said:
Trovador said:
I don't coincide with this strategy for the entire line-up as the demographics for each vehicle are different. They CAN'T genrealize something like that if they wan to be competible. For Lexus for example, that strategy would apply to an ES, but not for an IS where they are targeting a younger, horsepower hungry, crowd. The same for the Toyota brand in itself. You cannot follow the same strategy for the Camry and say the Matrix. I agree that most Camry buyers won't place HP so high on their decision variables. But for the Matrix it would be a completely different story. Toyota is smart, I hope they do the right thing.
Quite to the contrary, I think Toyota made a mistake playing the horsepower game with the Matrix XRS. Toyota wanted to (and did) trumpet180 HORSEPOWER in Matrix advertisements. Alas, the combination of a quasi-microvan with a Celica rev-motor is not a happy one. A well-engineered, supercharged version of the non-VVTi base engine would have been a better choice for most Toyota customers. Moreover, I think such an engine would have made the AWD Matrix a respectable performer instead of the slug that it is.

The Lexus IS is another interesting question. Personally, I believe if Lexus would offer the 4.3 Liter V-8 with a manual that ninety-five percent of the performance hounds would be satified. I really don't think that Toyota will ever match the manual with an eight cylinder.

uberchuckie said:
"You have to have an IS 300 that's believable as a performance car before you go about making an M3 type of car," Press said. "The problem in taking on BMW is that they've refined that art. We can't do it, because it's there already. We have to do our own thing."

I think they have conceded defeat...
This part of the article caught my eye too. Reading between the lines, I added a little to the below version.

"You have to have an IS 300 that's ALMOST believable as a performance car before you EVEN START TO THINK about making an M3 type of car," Press said. "The problem in taking on BMW is that they've refined that art. We can't do it AND STILL MAKE MONEY, because it's there already.AND WE HAVE TO START FROM SCRATCH We have to do our own thing."
You are not seeing the big picture. I am not saying it is everything about HP and it never will be. I am just saying that it is one of the most important deciding factors for the younger audience when choosing a car. Of course, if the rest of the car is not as appealing, all the HP in the world will not make a difference.
 

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hasanazhar said:
WTF???????? This is insane!!!! Nissan's 3.5L V6 and Honda's 3.2L V6 both achieve better fuel economy than Toyota's 3.0L I6, while delivering much more hp and torque. So that's plain bullshit over their inability to deliver a competitive engine with decent fuel economy as well as power. They wait forever to introduce new engines. I think the new 4.0L V6 from the new 4Runner (which is an excellent engine), should be dropped into the Avalon and other bigger vehicles. The 4.7L V8 should be juiced up with VVTi to get more (flatter) torque, more horsepower, and yet more mpg. They have to realize that people care more about power and performance than emissions. Besides, if their cars are producing the same emissions as others, but much less horsepower, then it makes no choose them over...
I agree with you.... They have the potential to do it, but choose not to for some odd reason.... The 4.0 liter V8 that I had in my GS400 was a Gem.. Great power and actually more economical than the I-6 which is pathetic. The Toyota iron block I-6 in the IS/GS300 are very solid engines and are capable of handling extreme modification (even though only a small fraction of buyers actually modify their cars)... BUT... The engine is dated and greatly underpowered compared with the 6-cylinder engines from Honda and Nissan like you mention. Not to mention the fact that it gets fuel economy figures worse than a lot of V8 engines... I took my sister's Audi S4 to NYC and got and avg. of 27 mpg. This is with a car hindered by high weight and fuel robbing all wheel drive components.. The 3.0 liter I-6 from BMW gets far better fuel economy than the IS300 and delivers better engine performance as well. Imagine the potential of the IS300 with a high output engine replacement given its current chassis.
Eric....
 
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