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I don't think there's anything wrong with the Scion brand but I'd like to see it as a Toyota. I just wouldn't buy a Scion based entirely on the fact that I'd pay the exact same as every other moron that walked in there.
 

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About canibalizing sales... I think Justin.b is proof that wouldn't happen. There are some people who are power hungry... like myself... and then there are people like Justin.b who just want a fun experience.

Two people with two different goals.
 

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Justin, why do you act as if they would have to cease production of the current version. They could do a limited run of a turbo version while still not meeting the demand for the current model.

Nobody is saying that every FRS should be a 3400lb 320hp stoplight racer. Strap a small, quick spooling turbo on, larger brakes, done. Should add minimal weight, maybe 100 lbs.
I'm not saying they have to cease production or even that a high hp version would interrupt production of current spec in any way. I'm saying they'd be taking their low-volume vehicle and using it as a base to produce an even lower-volume vehicle.

They'd be a lot smarter to let the aftermarket handle the power upgrades and just keep producing the car as they are. If they want this car to be THE tuner platform, then all they need to do is produce the bare bones car. Isn't there a racer version in Japan with unpainted bumpers, steel wheels and no radio? I'd expect to see that before a turbo version.

I'll tell you the version we'd be more likely to see is a club racer version - most likely with the same hp/tq figures.

It's essentially the same reason Apple isn't likely to start making $500 laptops that only run windows.

The power hungry can still buy an FR-S and turbo it. If you're a hp junkie, you're going to perform power mods to the car no matter how much hp the factory gives it. If you're going to spend that money anyway, then what the hell is the point to give it more stock hp to start with?

As to Porsche, I'd say the Porsche badge/name has sold more Boxsters than any performance numbers have. They could have cut hp in half and made it front wheel drive and still sold 80% as many. And if you're expecting Toyota to believe they can sell on nerdy materials and a great exhaust note regardless of price, I have three painful letters for you: L. F. A.

Seriously, make a business case for a 300+ hp version. It's not hard to get 300hp out of the present one, and you haven't bought one yet at $25k. What makes Toyota think you're going to buy one from them at $38k? Hyundai, BMW, Nissan and Infinity can get you in a 300hp rwd coupe for that money. Have you purchased one of those?

All this 'if it only had 300hp' talk is really starting to remind me of the motherfuckers on the old 240sx forums that used to talk shit about people who swapped in the SR's. They'd say that you could get more hp out of turbocharging the stock motor, and they'd talk about their plans for the perfect turbo system for the stock motor. Strangely, none of them ever actually built that dream turbo system - just kept driving their beat 240sx's with the stock motors and talking shit.

I'll tell you what, give me $38k and I will sell you a 300hp FR-S. You could get one with more hp for less money yourself, but that's my price for it. I won't stay up tonight checking my paypal account for deposits....

-Justin
 

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You assume that people who buy the FRS are willing to take their brand new car to some tuner shop and drop 10K on upgrades with potentially disastrous warranty-voiding consequences.

The business argument is the following.

Subaru/STi
Toyota/TRD
BMW/M
Mercedes/AMG
Lexus/F Sport
Fiat/Abarth
Mazda/Mazdaspeed
Nissan/Nismo
Ford/SVT

Why does any factory performance division exist? Can't the aftermarket just take care of that?
 

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\/ Awesome \/
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A warranty is a nice thing for sure. I plan on keeping the Tacoma till my 100k warranty expires. Then I'll go buy another one. It's nice having the piece of mind that you're covered. It's like an insurance policy. It really lets you ENJOY what you've purchased. :)
 

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You assume that people who buy the FRS are willing to take their brand new car to some tuner shop and drop 10K on upgrades with potentially disastrous warranty-voiding consequences.

The business argument is the following.

Subaru/STi
Toyota/TRD
BMW/M
Mercedes/AMG
Lexus/F Sport
Fiat/Abarth
Mazda/Mazdaspeed
Nissan/Nismo
Ford/SVT

Why does any factory performance division exist? Can't the aftermarket just take care of that?
In most of those exist mainly to produce a performance sedan so the manufacturer doesn't have to make dedicated sports car chassis'.

-Justin
 

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Most of those manufacturers have or have had dedicated sports coupes. I don't know if Fiat has one overseas or not.
Most employ a significant level of parts sharing to keep costs down. Hell, the Z isn't even a unique car. It's just a lighter, smaller Infiniti G. The BMW Z4 and the Mercedes SLK both use powertrains from other models (and are slotted far north of the BRZ). Ford's coupe is an high volume seller.
 

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Most employ a significant level of parts sharing to keep costs down. Hell, the Z isn't even a unique car. It's just a lighter, smaller Infiniti G. The BMW Z4 and the Mercedes SLK both use powertrains from other models (and are slotted far north of the BRZ). Ford's coupe is an high volume seller.
the G is based off the Z.. not vice versa
 

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The point I'm making is that OEMs do not leave performance upgrades completely to the aftermarket. Whether or not it involves parts and chassis sharing, there is a business model.
 

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haha yeh just nitpicking.

but back onto part sharing, even within those performance divisions.. a lot of parts are rebranded aftermarket parts. e.g. l-tuned springs, exhaust, wheels..
 

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Again, not the point. Factory performance has been done for decades successfully and profitably. It could also be applied to this model very easily, in my opinion.
 

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but they do have factory performance upgrades being released. Just not a turbo, for whatever their reasons. Probably the same reason they never came out with a supercharger for the IS.

Keep in mind all of those performance divisions don't necessarily come out with a turbo option for their sports coupes and sedans either.

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