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Discussion Starter #1
Ten Years ago the Germans owned the luxury car segment. They were solid, sophisticated, and prestiges. Then as Lexus came into the segment (rather INVADED the segment). They delivered more than the Germans in features, mechanical sopistication (air suspension, DOHC engine (compared to the SOHC 735i and 420sel), and reliablity for a price that undercut the germans by $15-$20K. It took BMW a few years and Mercedes Benz longer to recover from tremendous Impact Lexus has made. Well...... today in the year 2000 they are equal in a lot of ways and you can't go wrong buying either the Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus throught the model ranges. Have any of guys wondered what things would be like in the year 2010?? Do you see one company taking the lead? Maybe we'll all be driving Honda Insights and Toyota Prius's....

Eric....
 

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I think Audi will take the lead as they are the child of parental Giant Volkswagon Ag (whom which has plenty of money to play with)....
 

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Originally posted by S4Tip:
I think Audi will take the lead as they are the child of parental Giant Volkswagon Ag (whom which has plenty of money to play with)....
yeah, if Colonel Klink, er, I mean Chairman Piech doesn't completely ruin Audi first!! Ever notice how expensive VW's are getting? Chairman Piech is trying to position VW in the US market as another Lexus, MB or BMW

They're coming out with a $70,000 super sedan in a couple years that will bear a VW name, not an Audi name. With that wacko heading up VW, you'll be lucky if Audi is even in existence in 10 years!
 

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Now that Japan has gotten the reputation to command "full" price on their high end luxury cars (now only slightly undercutting equivalent German cars), I keep expecting that some other "more hungry" country will start gaining sales as they undercut (on price) with similar quality.

People laughed when Lexus made a run at Mercedes.

Lets see what happens when Daewoo, and Hyundai finally decide to "take on the big boys".

==========================================

Predictions:

More cars with CVT transmissions.

Less people will want SUVs.

42v electrical system and more cars with HID.

Gasoline prices will continue to rise.
 

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Last I heard Daewoo was either bankrupt or on the verge of getting swalled up by GM. I doubt GM will touch the likes of MB and Lexus.

My predictions are that traditional muscle cars will dissappear and we'll see sedan/coupe hybrids with good fuel efficiency. The new Dodge Charger is supposed to be environment friendly.

[This message has been edited by kota (edited October 17, 2000).]
 

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Daewoo is bankrupt. GM and Ford both thought about buying them but backed out. Now Fiat is pondering a Daewoo takeover. If that doesn't happen, Daewoo is history.

I personally think Hyundai is a car company that may give the japanese some serious competition in America soon. Their sales have more than doubled since 1998 and they have shown that they are not afraid of implementing predatory pricing strategies to undercut the competition.

BMW will be owned by either Ford, GM or Toyota by the year 2010. They are too small of a car company to be able to remain independant for very much longer. Honda faces a similar dilemma. These companies do not have the financial resources to complete in a global marketplace against competition from Toyota, GM and Daimler Chrysler.

VW is starting to suffer from hubris. There is no way that anyone is going to pay $70,000 for a Volkswagen. Besides, they are having a hard enough time trying to find 3000 buyers for the Audi A8 in America.

[This message has been edited by viggen (edited October 17, 2000).]
 

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The Hyundai XG's front looks like the last generation I30 and the rear looks like a RR Corniche.

I would buy the $70k VW if it was comparable to other cars in the price range. Plus you don't have to pay an inflated price for the label, so it might be a bargain. The A8 came out in 94. It's long overdue for a makeover and its stagnating sales isn't unexpected.


http://www.vwvortex.com/news/09_99/IAA_99/D1/index.html

[This message has been edited by kota (edited October 17, 2000).]
 

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Subaru may get absorbed by GM (like Saab did),
and Mazda may become part of Ford (like Jaguar)...
 

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i think MB and BMW are still ahead, and will be for a few years to come. when lexus develops a more sports type market(to compete with ///m and amg) we shall see.
 

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Originally posted by kota:
Ford already owns a controlling share of Mazda. If I'm not mistaken, in Japan if you own 1/3 or more of a company, it's considered enough to have control.
http://www.thestandard.com/companies/display/0,2063,10597,00.html

[This message has been edited by kota (edited October 17, 2000).]
You are right about this. Likewise, Renault has control over Nissan because they own a little over 1/3 of Nissan's stock.

The current A8 has been a sales flop since it first hit U.S. shores. They were offering $10K incentives on these cars back in 1997 and 1998. Audi just doesn't have the panache that is needed to sell cars in this price range.
 

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Toyota's doing great, so is Honda. Nissan had $20 billion in debt...almost went bankrupt when Renault bought a controlling stake. I think all the German automakers are doing better than ever before, thanks to the strong US economy. VW has increased their market share significantly in the last few years, and so have BMW and MB.
As for the Americans, I hate to say this but all they're good at doing is eating up other car companies (some successful ones).
Toyota, like some other American giants, has a $25 billion reserve, so I'm hoping they'd buy out BMW. If not, Honda and BMW may merge. Daimler still hasn't digested Chrysler, and Ford's having too many recalls. GM's already too big.
As far as the Koreans taking over the Jap's, let alone the Germans' market share, well I don't see that happening. When Toyota came out with Lexus, they already had a good rep for quality/reliability, which Hyundai, Daewoo, or Kia don't have. And this will take a lot of time and many takeovers to fix.
I test drove a Prius a few weeks ago, and was very impressed. It's much more practical than the Insight, and looks much better too.
I was even impressed by the acceleration, which I think was as good as a camry at least (thanks to the high torque electric motor). So I think that as gas prices keep creeping up, hybrids will take over conventional vehicles.

black/ivory
17"
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Originally posted by hasanazhar:
Toyota's doing great, so is Honda. Nissan had $20 billion in debt...almost went bankrupt when Renault bought a controlling stake. I think all the German automakers are doing better than ever before, thanks to the strong US economy. VW has increased their market share significantly in the last few years, and so have BMW and MB.
As for the Americans, I hate to say this but all they're good at doing is eating up other car companies (some successful ones).
Toyota, like some other American giants, has a $25 billion reserve, so I'm hoping they'd buy out BMW. If not, Honda and BMW may merge. Daimler still hasn't digested Chrysler, and Ford's having too many recalls. GM's already too big.
As far as the Koreans taking over the Jap's, let alone the Germans' market share, well I don't see that happening. When Toyota came out with Lexus, they already had a good rep for quality/reliability, which Hyundai, Daewoo, or Kia don't have. And this will take a lot of time and many takeovers to fix.
I test drove a Prius a few weeks ago, and was very impressed. It's much more practical than the Insight, and looks much better too.
I was even impressed by the acceleration, which I think was as good as a camry at least (thanks to the high torque electric motor). So I think that as gas prices keep creeping up, hybrids will take over conventional vehicles.

black/ivory
17"
Wow Hasanazhar! Very informative message. thanks

Eric...
 

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As wonderful as Toyota is I still believe that Mercedes and BMW engineers' approach to building a ground up car is unmatched. While the Japanese and Swedes make very comparably valued cars, there is much truth to Merc and BMW having souls while the others do not. I feel it will take decades for any company outside of Germany to obtain this intangible asset, currently only assigned to the Germans (obviously I'm excluding Italian exotics and one-offs). Believe it or not I think only the Americans can match the Germans for a car having soul, value, and longevity-and boy are we a long way from seeing that again.

[This message has been edited by brad (edited November 06, 2000).]
 

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Discussion Starter #19
CONGRATULATIONS BRAD!!!! You're now a VERY PROUD owner of a Lexus Rocketship... How do you like it???
Eric...
 

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People.... wake up... think of Japanese makers 10-15 years ago they were just just the Koreans are now...

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Nice but overpriced...
 
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