[tony]

It's always interesting to see everything come either full circle or repeat itself in every circumstance...

There's been alot of personal and forum bashing going on lately. A lot of nonsense posts, trolling, baiting and flaming. Stuff you expect on an elementary school playground. But it is not unexpected. Every forum I've run or participated in goes through the same hardships. And it either grows out of it or it doesn't.

Now TEG as a moderator has a responsibility to be fair and impartial and to use his best judgement when a distinction is unclear. As webmaster, I don't have that burden. I can do whatever the hell I want here. I can delete every single post I don't like. But I'm sure you all know that's not what I like to do. I'm much more of a hands off kinda moderator - I expect people to act like adults. When that doesn't work, we begin to have issues.

When some juvenile poster comes along and riles everyone up, there is a call for action: Let's lock people out, Let's password protect the forum, Let's moderate more vigorously, Let's do something! This will not change (neither the juvenile posters appearing nor the outrage it sparks). However, as a community, we have the power to ignore or incite - and that's a choice you have to make as an individual.

If I HAVE to, I will delete posts left and right - I've started doing it already with the more ridiculous threads. But there are few things that need to be cleared up:

Discussions regarding the TL, CL-S, S2000, M3, M5, 330i, etc are important and welcome. This is an auto enthusiast forum. All these cars and more are competitors to the IS either in direct market or in your own mind or decision process. Opinions on these OTHER cars is valid and important. But we don't need My-dick-is-bigger-than-your-dick discussions. Stick with what you know. If you can't back up your statements with facts, then don't bother posting.

Off-topic posts are not completely unwanted. Many things relate to the IS. But we don't need breakfast and prom discussions. I would hope that most of you can see where the line is drawn and respect it.

In the simplest and easiest to understand terms, be respectful. If you were sitting and talking personally with someone face to face, would you say what you're about to write? If not, don't post it. Maintain your personal morals. You don't have the right to insult or bait someone just because they can't come kick your ass.

[rant mode off]


------------------
Tony
'01 Spectra Blue
'94 Turbo Miata

 

[disintegration]

I applaud your stance ...

 

[croddy]

Well stated! Thanks for a great forum. You have to admit, some of the childishness has been funny to watch.

 

[EricK]

Well said Tony.. and sorry about the, what you drove to the prom post..

Eric....

 

[tony]

Originally posted by EricK:
Well said Tony.. and sorry about the, what you drove to the prom post..

Eric....

Sorry Eric, that was one of the more borderline threads, it was, after all, about cars.

------------------
Tony
'01 Spectra Blue
'94 Turbo Miata

 

[geoff]

as hard as this may be to believe, i've been a moderator for several ubb's before. you are right in saying each and every forum goes through these "hardships," but to be honest, i don't see it the same way. i see it as personality development, the emergence of character, the thing that creates a community instead of a repository of nothing but hardline fact and soulless communication. most people here consider me a kid, a nuisance, and a troll, only the latter of which is remotely correct. yes, i came in here on a somewhat off-canter note and riled everyone up, but frankly, that was all in good fun. i will admit that the tenor was a bit overboard, and it's obvious i have tuned that down a bit. nonetheless, i still find myself the first target of thread locking and deleted posts, even when there are many other "offenders" who do not have my antagonistic history. that's fine, but it's moderation with bias, which intrinsically is something of a double-standard.

for the record, i find quite a few people in here very cool and interesting, despite the difference in our car allegiance. i also find some of the people in here to be incredibly uptight and lacking a sense of humor. but as i know from moderating several other forums, this is what all forums experience, for better or worse. tony, you have the right idea with the owner's forum (password protecting it so detritus like me can't get in

), but i'll wager that the general discussion traffic will far outshine that of the owner's forum. why? because despite all the posturing about getting rid of the is300 haters, etc., people like the exchange. like you said, this is an enthusiast's forum (and one of the better ones, imho), and part of being an enthusiast is engaging in periodic pissing contests with those that are enthusiastic about something other than what you are.

this is a good forum with some good people. the OT posts and the troll-esqe posts -- within reason, of course -- are, in my opinion, both natural and good for the forum development. in the end, a greater sense of community will result.

my giant .02 as the forum gnat.

thank u very much

[This message has been edited by geoff (edited October 19, 2000).]

 

[wazzup]

Geoff,
Just don't post anymore oatmeal eating topics anymore and we should be cool.

 

[geoff]

Originally posted by wazzup:
Geoff,
Just don't post anymore oatmeal eating topics anymore and we should be cool.

you have to admit u wanted to know

 

[droideka]

Bravo, Tony. Well said.

 

[Trey Poupon]

Geoff is right,

OT posts builts community, gives insight into others so YOU can form some sort of opinion into how you should 'relate'. As far as Oatmeal posts concern, don't click and let it go, it'll disappear eventually.

Locking threads is subjective, BUT I've witness deleted threads and that's NOT cool. I mean it's NOT cool. The person responsible for that doesn't realize who detrimental, it is absolute censorship at it's worst.

As the saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[Leader]

Tony - well stated update.
This forum should remain polite but it should also be free of subjective censorship.
Geoff apparently has figured out that everyone did not perceive the humorous "tone" in his earlier posts and has readjusted accordingly. Bravo for him.
The point about treating these posts like you're having a face-to-face conversation with someone is worth remembering before you hit that "Submit Reply" button.
Thanks to Tony, TEG and the others who take the time to keep this forum going!

 

[Agent Smith]

Thanks for bringing order back to this chaotic place...I support your decision and will do my best to control my outrage at some of the posts in here.

Agent Smith Out

PS - Anyway you can check up on a lot of these "new members" and see if they have another name in here?

 

[tony]

Originally posted by Trey Poupon:
Geoff is right,

OT posts builts community, gives insight into others so YOU can form some sort of opinion into how you should 'relate'. As far as Oatmeal posts concern, don't click and let it go, it'll disappear eventually.

I thought I made most of those points. But I could be wrong.

Locking threads is subjective, BUT I've witness deleted threads and that's NOT cool. I mean it's NOT cool. The person responsible for that doesn't realize who detrimental, it is absolute censorship at it's worst.

One of the things I didn't get to mention in my initial posts is that I don't have to answer to anyone. TEG typically does not delete, he locks. But I will delete if I feel it appropriate. And I will not apologize for it. I have a right to help shape the personality of this forum.

And I'm not saying this on some webmaster power trip, I'm saying it as a responsible site owner and moderator.


------------------
Tony
'01 Spectra Blue
'94 Turbo Miata

[This message has been edited by webmaster (edited October 19, 2000).]

 

[Trey Poupon]

Webmaster,

True, but if you encourage people to 'post' ie they have a 'right' to speak their minds (like your analogy about face to face conversation) then people have a right to 'listen' or read their post. If someone don't like a topic, don't click.

If there is a personal attack going on then do lock but even then we're all adults (mostly) and we should fend for outselves, pick our own battles if you will.

 

[Trey Poupon]

BTW,

Webmaster, true you don't have to apologize for anything and delete at will or 'your' will, you certainly have the right to shape the personality of this forum. Guess what'll happen?

First, you'll turn a lot of people off and the only ones left will be just alike, perhaps just like you, everyone thinking the same.

no offense

 

[tony]

Trey, I appreciate your comments, but I do not feel I've overstepped my bounds, even on my own forum.

First, you'll turn a lot of people off and the only ones left will be just alike, perhaps just like you, everyone thinking the same.

I have not deleted threads that I do not agree with or that do not share my views. I have deleted threads that do not contribute any value to the forum.

If there is a personal attack going on then do lock but even then we're all adults (mostly) and we should fend for outselves, pick our own battles if you will.

I'm not trying to save anyone's feelings by deleting threads either. I'm removing irrelevant discussion.

I was afraid someone was going to get on the free speech bandwagon after my comments, but that's not what this entire discussion is about.


------------------
Tony
'01 Spectra Blue
'94 Turbo Miata

 

[Agent Smith]

Tony - it is clear to me that Trey is an agent provocateur...he just signed up to start $hit and he is playing you right now. I have serious doubts that his concern for an open forum is the reason he came here.

We trust your judgement and appreciate the hard work you and TEG do to keep this place running smooth.

Agent Smith Out

 

[Doug]

Well I have to congratulate you and your willingness to crush the creativity and enthusiam of some of the more interesting posters here.

I think being a mature adult is being able to look at the idiotic banter being thrown around and laugh at it if you think its funny, or ignore it if you think it is offensive. Locking the thread or deleting the post is inconsequential, the poster doesn't go away, it doesn't enhance the other posts or increase anyone's interest in other areas of the forum.

The freedom to say EXACTLY what you want to say and with relative anonymity is the beauty of this and other forums. If you choose to censor topics or threads that you personally find objectionable, for example the completely benign thread about prom, you take away part of the personality of the board.

Obviously you will do whatever you like, but this forum has had me on the floor rolling in laughter, a lot of these guys are funny, witty, smart, knowledgeable and are a great asset to owners and enthusiast who come here. It may be your forum and your subjective control, but the true brain trust is the people who keep it real by occasionally going off or posting some whacky off topic stuff.

In the end I think there are very few members who care or feel their ego's can't cope.

 

[tony]

Originally posted by Doug:
Well I have to congratulate you and your willingness to crush the creativity and enthusiam of some of the more interesting posters here.

I think being a mature adult is being able to look at the idiotic banter being thrown around and laugh at it if you think its funny, or ignore it if you think it is offensive. Locking the thread or deleting the post is inconsequential, the poster doesn't go away, it doesn't enhance the other posts or increase anyone's interest in other areas of the forum.

The freedom to say EXACTLY what you want to say and with relative anonymity is the beauty of this and other forums. If you choose to censor topics or threads that you personally find objectionable, for example the completely benign thread about prom, you take away part of the personality of the board.

Gee, thanks Doug, that was exactly the point I was NOT trying to get across. I never said anything about posts being personally objective. People are free to speak their mind and remain as anonymous as they choose. You never saw me write anything about "that thread was insulting, so I deleted it". I chose to delete what I deleted in an attempt to get rid of some of the more useless stuff. I'm not trying to or intend to remove any personality from the forum or hinder creativity. We probably agree on what a mature adult should or would do, but the main issue is people who are not mature adults.

And don't forget, I posted what cellphone I have and participated in many a useless thread myself. It's not the off-topic-ness of some posts that bothers me, but the agressive attitude of many of the other posts.

I certainly don't think that Geoff's initial posts were creative or enthusiastic. They were antagonistic. I don't find humor in pushing people's buttons that way.


------------------
Tony
'01 Spectra Blue
'94 Turbo Miata


[This message has been edited by webmaster (edited October 19, 2000).]

 

[Doug]

I hear you, and I agree with the hands off, the point wasn't why you pulled posts or locked threads, just that you decided in your or TEG's subjective opionion as to what is junk and what is not, if you watched the frenzy yesterday morning, which I admit was somehat tasteless and had little redeeming value, I LMAO for about 45 minutes, then all of us made nice and went about our day. Point being, most of this stuff is just coming and going. I don't even have an IS, but this forum is passionate and that makes it fun. In the end we are all just a bunch of car nuts and the nameplate on the cars we are just a little different.