[EricK]

Mercedes Benz has their C240 which apparently goes for $37K when loaded nicely with options, BMW has their 325i which goes for $38-$39K when fully loaded. Audi has their A4 1.8T Quattro (which is highly upgradable performance wise) and is a bargin)..... Yes Lexus's IS300 does undercut the Bimmer and Merc as far as price with a larger displacement engine. Well the IS200 has been highly rated by the European and Australian Press. It's better balanced than the IS300 and is probably more fun to drive around the corners. Don't you guys think they should bring that car here as an entry level IS with maybe a low pressure turbo (to help it performance wise)....That might be able to pull the price down to maybe $30K. What do you think?
Eric....

 

[kota]

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[This message has been edited by kota (edited October 19, 2000).]

 

[EricK]

Yeah, that's why I said above that they could add a low pressure turbo to help with performance....

Eric...

 

[wazzup]

entery level 4 banger turbo? sounds like fun to me....I just love the sound of blow off valves...pfffsssst!

You know what I think, if Lexus really wants to go toe to toe with the III series and all the the other sporty 2 door sedans, they should come out with a 2 door IS300 coupe, L-tuned.

 

[kota]

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[This message has been edited by kota (edited October 19, 2000).]

 

[EricK]

Then How is Audi Able to offer loaded turbocharged Quattro 1.8T for so cheap. Maybe that's why there are so many of them out there...That car's a bargin with all you can get...For $29,990 you get the following options...the Quattro System, Cold Weather Package (which includes Heated front seats, Ski sack, and heated outside door locks), Sports Package (which includes Sports Suspension and Sport Wheels), Xenon Headlamps, BOSE SOUNDSYSTEM, and Premium package (which includes Moonroof, Homelink Transmitter, auto dimming rear view mirrors)..Leatherette interior
.....Remember that that price also includes All Wheel Drive... I'm sure Lexus could sell such a car for around $30K...
Eric....

Also Car & Driver mentioned in a Review of the A4 1.8T Quattro that they didn't know how it was possible for Audi to be making a profit on that car because it offered so much for so little..

[This message has been edited by EricK (edited October 09, 2000).]

 

[Daniel]

And how often do they break down compare to Toyota?
Also, Toyota in my opinion is the most expensive Japanese cars amount all the Japanese manufacturer. I think they can probably drop their 2.5L I6 in the Altezza and still keep the near 50/50 balance. Although I don't think it will be a good idea to have Toyota Altezza and Lexus IS300 in the same market, it will eventually kill one of the two.

 

[EricK]

Originally posted by Daniel:
And how often do they break down compare to Toyota?
Also, Toyota in my opinion is the most expensive Japanese cars amount all the Japanese manufacturer. I think they can probably drop their 2.5L I6 in the Altezza and still keep the near 50/50 balance. Although I don't think it will be a good idea to have Toyota Altezza and Lexus IS300 in the same market, it will eventually kill one of the two.

Daniel, Mercedes Benz and especially BMW don't have reliability records that are even close to that of Lexus, but yet they are priced significantly higher than the IS300.. I believe that an entry level IS can work to Lexus's advantage. BMW sells significantly more 323i/325i's compared to 328i/330i. However they do very nicely selling both models. Most people can't justify paying the excess cost for a more powerful engine and others simply can't afford it. My point is this: ... If Audi, Mercedes Benz, and BMW can have entry level models within their smaller class cars, then why can't Lexus... Just think if there was only a GS400 and no GS300.(granted I know that there is a two cylinder difference between the GS400 and GS300, but so would there be between an IS200 and IS300)..
Eric....



[This message has been edited by EricK (edited October 09, 2000).]

 

[kota]

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[This message has been edited by kota (edited October 19, 2000).]

 

[kota]

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[This message has been edited by kota (edited October 19, 2000).]

 

[Daniel]

I believe the IS200 is the 2.0 I6, not I4 engine. I guess they can bring that over, but not turbocharged, because then they will run into the same problem MB had with their C230 and C280, where the power output rating were almost the same and most people will buy the C230. And I don't think Lexus want to go into the sub or mid 20K price range, and like I said before, a Toyota Altezza and a Lexus IS300 will mean one of them will pretty much die at the end. Unless they significantly improve the IS300, which will probably raised the price of the car so much that no one will want to buy it, there is no way that IS and Altezza can survive in the same market.

 

[EricK]

Originally posted by kota:
The A4 1.8Q is woefully underpowered for its weight. It is absolute pig when it comes to acceleration. You can get a Garette chip and exhaust installed to produce over 200hp, but there is no such thing as free performance. Something has to give if you run the turbos above spec.

The 1.8T is higly upgradable (unlike the 30V 2.8 V6). Here are some comments on what people thought after adding their chip http://www.audizone.com/info/survey/18chipcomments.htm
Keep in mind that the All Wheel Drive hardware does slow the car down somewhat. Besides, "some" (used some so I don't get flamed) buyers that look at entry level cars aren't as concerned with performance...
Eric...

 

[EricK]

Originally posted by kota:
The price difference between the 325 and 330 is about $4000. For $4000 you get a better engine, bigger wheels, a better transmission and some chrome trim on the windows/headlights. BUT, if you made a cheaper IS200 perform as good as a IS300, how do you justify the IS300?

Kota,
Then why does BMW sell many more 323/325i's over the 328/330i? The IS200 wouldn't be "as good" as the IS300...
Eric...

 

[EricK]

Originally posted by Daniel:
I believe the IS200 is the 2.0 I6, not I4 engine. I guess they can bring that over, but not turbocharged, because then they will run into the same problem MB had with their C230 and C280, where the power output rating were almost the same and most people will buy the C230. And I don't think Lexus want to go into the sub or mid 20K price range, and like I said before, a Toyota Altezza and a Lexus IS300 will mean one of them will pretty much die at the end. Unless they significantly improve the IS300, which will probably raised the price of the car so much that no one will want to buy it, there is no way that IS and Altezza can survive in the same market.

Well if a Camry/ES300 coexists very nicely just as the Toyota Landcruiser/Lexus LX470.... So Why can't an Altezza/IS300 coexist?
Eric...

 

[kota]

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[This message has been edited by kota (edited October 19, 2000).]

 

[hasanazhar]

I don't think it's such a bad idea: having an entry level IS - just like the GS. They can up the power on the current IS to say 250hp, and bring in an entry level IS 200/250 with either a normally aspirated or a low pressure turbo rated at around 200 hp. That way the cars will be differentiated, and they won't kill eachothers' market share. The high end model can be more luxurious, that way it can better compete with the German counterparts, whereas the entry level can be a base car with all amenities optional.
Just my 2 cents. I love the car and would buy it regardless...

black/ivory
17"

 

[JW]

I think an IS250 would be a good idea...just take the 1JZ-GE (2.5L I6, 200 hp, 180-something torque, I think.) from the JDM Progres (which shares its platform with the Altezza/IS) and stick it in the IS's engine bay.

 

[lyndon_h]

Nope. An entry level IS would be bad for everyone except the very young. An entry level IS would probably start out at about 25k (the same price as a prelude). That would kill the prestigous-ness of the IS and also a kill a lil of the prestigous-ness of Lexus (a lil)

A 25k IS would be a perfect "rice-rocket". There would be so many that it wouldn't be special having one. It would turn into a kiddie car at 25k, if you don't believe me, look at the integra, prelude, and accord ex (all about 25k fully loaded).

How many BMW's and Mercedes do you see souped up as "rice-rockets"(i only use this term because I have asian friends who call it this, not being racist)? You never do. Thats because they keep their price a lil too expensive for the kid racers.

They should offer the IS's underpinnings in a toyota however. That would give Toyota the cult following that Honda enjoys.

MHO

 

[EricK]

Originally posted by lyndon_h:
Nope. An entry level IS would be bad for everyone except the very young. An entry level IS would probably start out at about 25k (the same price as a prelude). That would kill the prestigous-ness of the IS and also a kill a lil of the prestigous-ness of Lexus (a lil)

A 25k IS would be a perfect "rice-rocket". There would be so many that it wouldn't be special having one. It would turn into a kiddie car at 25k, if you don't believe me, look at the integra, prelude, and accord ex (all about 25k fully loaded).

How many BMW's and Mercedes do you see souped up as "rice-rockets"(i only use this term because I have asian friends who call it this, not being racist)? You never do. Thats because they keep their price a lil too expensive for the kid racers.

They should offer the IS's underpinnings in a toyota however. That would give Toyota the cult following that Honda enjoys.

MHO

What about the BMW 318Ti...??? BMW is bringing it back again....That will be in the mid 20's...
Eric....

 

[mrclam]

NOOOOOOOOOOO they're really bringing back the 318? i heard there was gonna be a 2 series.... =)