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Discussion Starter #1
The new BMW wins the competition and the new IS350 finishes a close second, G35 3rd, Acura TL forth. The new IS smokes eveyone in acceleration, its the quietest car of all tested and the new 330i appears to have significant quality issues in the electronics area. It does have a really nice interior, but the Lexus front seats are described as "thrones" Anybody read the review - opinions
 

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I believe that story was scanned and posted here somewhere.
 

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Hmm... there was already a multi-page thread that went on for days and days on this very same topic. Even had scans of the article in it.

But oh well...

I think it's bullshit that the BMW won. How can a car break down during a test and still win? That should be a reason not to win. Somebody also noticed that they added up the numbers wrong... and the BMW didn't actually win. Yes I know some magazines have subjective numerical ratings... but in C&D's table... they DID add the numbers to get an overall total. (or atleast they tried to)
 

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Crester said:
Hmm... there was already a multi-page thread that went on for days and days on this very same topic. Even had scans of the article in it.

But oh well...

I think it's bullshit that the BMW won. How can a car break down during a test and still win? That should be a reason not to win. Somebody also noticed that they added up the numbers wrong... and the BMW didn't actually win. Yes I know some magazines have subjective numerical ratings... but in C&D's table... they DID add the numbers to get an overall total. (or atleast they tried to)

Well, I have to give some credit to BMW's handling...they make very good sport sedans but I still like the IS better!
 

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What's the point of a car that is supposedly capable of good handling if it spends 90% of its time in the shop?!?!? :rolleyes:
 

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That was a great review of the IS350.... crying about how the BMW got 1st and forgetting how great the review of the IS was is silly.
 

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I think many of us would have like to see the IS350 ranked #1... hence the complaints. Just like our favourite car manufacturer... we are in the pursuit of perfection. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Sorry about the repost, but I frequent several forums (PC's, Sports, etc.) on different stuff and I work a lot of OT so I missed the first go around. I think the IS should have easily won. It's faster, quieter, less expensive, and better quality. I would never buy a $40K plus car that shows a build quality issue like the BMW. My 2001 IS with 73K is still flawless and so I find it hard to consider anything but a Lexus.
 

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Could somebody rehost the pictures?
 

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mjdart said:
Sorry about the repost, but I frequent several forums (PC's, Sports, etc.) on different stuff and I work a lot of OT so I missed the first go around. I think the IS should have easily won. It's faster, quieter, less expensive, and better quality. I would never buy a $40K plus car that shows a build quality issue like the BMW. My 2001 IS with 73K is still flawless and so I find it hard to consider anything but a Lexus.
if you look at the points for BMW and add them up, the mag was wrong. Both BMW and Lexus have the same total points...
 

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agent009_98 said:
if you look at the points for BMW and add them up, the mag was wrong. Both BMW and Lexus have the same total points...

And in my 15 years of reading C&D, there is an editors note that says that numbers dont always add up...

The editors can still declare a winner based on perception, not total points.

Thats why I am so shocked that everyone is crying.... the fact is, both are great cars, and obviously are well above the rest of the category.... they even said the G35 was "aging gracefully"
 

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HoustonLex said:
And in my 15 years of reading C&D, there is an editors note that says that numbers dont always add up...

The editors can still declare a winner based on perception, not total points.

Thats why I am so shocked that everyone is crying.... the fact is, both are great cars, and obviously are well above the rest of the category.... they even said the G35 was "aging gracefully"
There are articles that I have read to which stated the overall score is not a sum of the individual scores... that it is subjective. But in this particular comparison... it is clear that the total score is the sum of the individual components because it actually says TOTAL at the end of each catagory.
 

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if anything is true, it's the fact that bmw is hearing the lexus' footsteps behind them.

it seems it didn't take too long for lexus to "reel-in" bmw. bmw is still the target.

i can only imagine what the is300 3g will be.
 

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Crester said:
There are articles that I have read to which stated the overall score is not a sum of the individual scores... that it is subjective. But in this particular comparison... it is clear that the total score is the sum of the individual components because it actually says TOTAL at the end of each catagory.
Over the course of 15 years, they have said time and time again that the numbers dont always rule the test... this test included.
 

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HoustonLex said:
Over the course of 15 years, they have said time and time again that the numbers dont always rule the test... this test included.
So you're saying it's just a coincidence that all the columns for this test add up exactly... with the exception of the one column???? :suspiciou
 

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Crester said:
So you're saying it's just a coincidence that all the columns for this test add up exactly... with the exception of the one column???? :suspiciou
There's certainly a math error in the Lexus column, however the FINAL rankings are subjective - it's not the sum of the individual category scores.

Other car's numbers are off as well. Acura is off by -3, and the BMW and Cadillac are all +1 - that's where the subjective ratings come in to play.

Bottom line - Car and Driver can award first place (or any place) to whoever they want, regardless of whether or not the math adds up. It's one of the reasons car mags have so little credibility in my view, because a thorough, objectively based test is NOT hard to produce.

- T
 

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TonySCV said:
There's certainly a math error in the Lexus column, however the FINAL rankings are subjective - it's not the sum of the individual category scores.

Other car's numbers are off as well. Acura is off by -3, and the BMW and Cadillac are all +1 - that's where the subjective ratings come in to play.

Bottom line - Car and Driver can award first place (or any place) to whoever they want, regardless of whether or not the math adds up. It's one of the reasons car mags have so little credibility in my view, because a thorough, objectively based test is NOT hard to produce.

- T
Exactly.

I have felt car comparos are utterly useless for years and they always have such bias to them.

At least they slap in fairly objective scores in diff categories to let the reader know how the cars are rather than just go by some lame final judgment that always favours one brand.

I can make an opinion based on the category scores and then decide if they are worth my time to check out in person.

I do chuckle that the BMW 330 won this comparo when it sounds as though they fele the IS350 is the better all around car and also find it funny the BMW broke down yet that didnt influence the test but one coudl debate whether things like that should matter or not. If any of the other cars broke down you KNOW they would have suffered in the comparo.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Really, imagine your test driving a new $42K BMW sports sedan and all kinds of lights on the dash indicating problems are lit. You point this out to the upbeat salesman riding with you, he says "yeah but didn't it feel really good carving through those canyon curves". You then think how nice the chairs in the service area are gonna be. "Buy the Lexus!"
 

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If you dont think C&D is biased towards BMW, then you are nuts. Their quarter miles are always uphill like 30 degrees, because acceleration "as tested" is always extremely slow compared to the average driver. Its stupid, don't read these magazines! Editorials are good, but these comparisons are just rediculous.

These magazines are horrible, the only issue I buy of any of those autmotive magazines is the April Consumer Report to see how well my Lexus keeps doing. Surprise...it wins all of the time.
 
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