Are you trying to say that BMWs are bought because they are safe?
Two people were injured in the BMW in that crash:
"A 16-year-old Richboro boy, a front-seat passenger in the BMW who suffered a
broken upper leg and abdominal pain, also was in stable condition.
Another 16-year-old Richboro boy, a rear-seat passenger in the BMW who was
admitted for chest and abdominal pain, was in good condition."
Or are you saying that people buy BMWs to drive recklessly (like trying to pass two cars at once and end up hitting oncoming traffic)...
My take on the story was that it is just _another_ reminder that male, teenage drivers have a disproportionate amount of accidents. Insurance rates are highest for young male drivers for a reason.
Usually when there is some horrific, needless accident in the news (e.g. head on because one driver was doing something irresponsible) it is a young male driver and often drugs/alcohol were involved...
Although it _appears_ that no one died in that accident, I wouldn't exacly say that the BMW fared too well...
Hmm.. they may be injured, but not too bad. This BMW hit another larger car, and its occupants survived. What about the IS200 in HK that hit no one and the driver died that someone posted an article to a while ago ?
I have heard a BMW dealer say that the sheet metal on BMWs is thicker than that of Japanese cars. Does this make them safer in accidents ?
Look at some of the postings on bimmer.org and you have to wonder if some of these guys are mature enough ride a bicyle in traffic, much less drive a car. To wit:
- the recent idiot over there who bragged aboout redlining the engine through every gear every time he starts from a dead stop because he "loves" the engine roar
- the guy who "bragged" to doing 70 through a school zone
I know there are cretins driving every model of car; just seems like BMW attracts more than its fair share
Originally posted by TEG: Or are you saying that people buy BMWs to drive recklessly (like trying to pass two cars at once and end up hitting oncoming traffic)...
Trying to judge the relative safety of a particular car based on one accident is really without merit. Even cars which do very well on crash tests _can_ kill drivers/passengers in less severe accidents _if_ various factors (e.g. seatbelts? angle of impact, physical condition of the occupants, etc) work against the passengers.
Guess what, Di wasn't wearing her seatbelt. The only survivor of that crash was.
I don't know about you guys but I feel better when my loved ones are in a safe car. My wife drives a Maxima and although it has been a great car, as soon as I can swing it I am getting something safer. I can feel the chassis flex in that thing during routine driving.
BMW's routinely score very high on safety tests (as did the GS400). I wonder how the IS will do? I guess you always have to ask yourself this question: will the $5-6k saved vs a 330i seem like a good deal if you are injured in a crash in which the BMW would have protected you?
From reports I read Princess Di was alive at the time of the accident but died because the people at the scene didn't do anything and help arrived late. I own a W140 S-Class (same style as that in which princess di died), and it is the safest car in the world (subjectively speaking as an owner). What other car can claim people surviving such a crash?
S38, we don't know which car is safer, the IS or the 3. Correct me if I am wrong but it seems like you already feel that the 3 will not only be safer in car crashes but you also feel that it will be 5-6K safer? You're making assumptions about BMW's crash result safety over the Lexus before we have the infor and you slough off the factual brake results in which the IS soundly beats the 3. Your biased towards BMW is strongly apparent, and that is okay, but let's try to stick to facts when we can.
That's a line many BMW salesmen use...but when you're time is up, you'll die. I personally beleive that Lexus makes as safe a car as BMW, Mercedes, or Audi. The Germans just seem to use it as a sales pitch. Just cuz it has 2/4 more airbags doesn't mean it's a safer car.
To answer the question regarding sheet metal thickness: The safety of the car isn't directly related to the thickness of the sheet metal, i.e., safer car don't necessary have thicker sheet metal.
For example, a car with thick sheet metal will mean that the car will not deform when it hits a solid object. That may seem good, but think about where all those energy will go. It will go to the softest part of the car, which is your body. You want a car that can absorb or dissipate energy, that's why you see cars now say they have crumple zone. You need a section of the car that will soften the impact so not all the energy translate to your body, therefore prevent serious injuries. The safest car will be those that engineers have figured out where the stress will be concentrate at during an impact, and stiffen up those places while making sure that the driver compartment's structural integrity doesn't get degraded.
How would you ever measure $5-6k safer? Is a reconstructed knee worth $5-6k to me? Absolutely. We already know the 3 has a very good to excellent rating. You are correct we have no information on the IS. Hasn't it been out in a four cylinder version for a few years in Europe? What are the crash test results there?
Kudos to Lexus for great stock brakes. The GS had good brakes also. I am just saying that after working on my own brakes for years improvements are so simple and basic it is hardly something to brag about. You can make your stopping distances very short but will trade some rotor and pad life for it or pay tons of money for the upgrade (e.g. Movit Porsche brakes).
You have to realize that German cars are engineered for autobahn speeds, including crashing at those speeds. That is one reason that many European cars have been safer historically.
S38, I have really no bias in this arena of safety..but you have no quantifiable data beyond what your opinion of what the facts are. If you look at the NHTSA Crash test ratings, you'll note that most, if not all the luxury brand models scoring excellent, right on par with each other. That is data that people can believe and standby: http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ratings.htm
They build Formula One and Indy cars such that many drivers have survived 150MPH+ crashes. Wearing a helmet helps. The drivers are basically strapped to a seperate chassis from the body. It really depends on the accident. If you slide off the autobahn at 130Mph and don't hit anything head on then you would probably be OK... If you ran into a truck head on, it isn't going to be pretty.
That IS200 crash in HK was indeed very horrific.....But do you know that there are car crashes in that sort of magnitude almost every night over there?? I have personally seen MBs, bimmers, and even Volvos that have far worse crashes than the IS200.....
Again, like TEG said, (and I quote):
"Even cars which do very well on crash tests _can_ kill drivers/passengers in less severe accidents _if_ various factors (e.g. seatbelts? angle of impact, physical condition of the occupants, etc) work against the passengers"
so what does all this mean? BMW safe but unreliable? youll survive if you car breaks down in the middle of the road and get hit by another bimmer owner going 70 in a school zone? nothing against bimmers, or the poster for that, i just fail to see the purpose of this post...
oh yeah....what accident with the IS200 in HK? i mustve missed the post...