I drove the 2001 IS300 in Denver,CO and felt the car had less power than the C-Mercedes or the BMW-330. Is there some kind of limiter on a new IS300 to restrict maximum performance before a certain mileage? Or, is does this car have a difficult time at altitude without a free-flow intake system? I would like to purchase the car, so any input would be helpful
No Power on Test Drive
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The IS is slower than the C-class and 330 manuals, obviously, and probably slightly slower than the automatics. If you depress the ECT and TRAC (off) buttons, you will notice a little more oomf in the IS. But if you're looking for power, I would get the bimmer or wait for the manual.
-crontab -l
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An Ecstatic Owner of a Fully-Loaded Graphite Gray 2001 Lexus IS 300
-crontab -l
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An Ecstatic Owner of a Fully-Loaded Graphite Gray 2001 Lexus IS 300
Was the car cold? I think there's a performance limiter before the vehicle has reached proper operating temperature.
The IS300 isn't very powerful off-the-line. Where its drivetrain seems to shine is at-speed (40-100mph).
The IS300 automatic transmission does not perform well when left in "D". It gives a very smooth power delivery for everyday driving, but damps the effects of sudden accelerator movements (drive-by-wire and ECT-i) and seems genuinely confused when the pedal is put to the metal. With the transmission in "M", pretty good performance can be achieved if you E-shift correctly. This is not as easy as it seems, since the transmission will downshift out of your gear selection (without indication) for you if the depression of your accelerator exceeds a certain point. It also doesn't help that you cannot select first gear.
From a stop, you would have to select "M2". As you mash the pedal, you look at the tach and wonder whether the transmission has decided to go with 1st or 2nd. If it's in 1st, you obviously wait until it shifts to 2nd and goes through that before you would have to do anything. But what if the transmission is already in 2nd? You would bump up against the rev limiter if you failed to shift, thinking that you were in 1st. The way to work this transmission properly (my opinion at this point in ownership) is brinksmanship. If the tach seems to be going all the way up to the limiter, you're probably in 2nd, so you would need to upshift RIGHT NOW (attention and fast reaction times help). The assumption is, being that 1st is a very low ratio, that even floored, 1st to 2nd does not occur at the maximum rpm.
At speed, you would downshift until you see that you have exceeded the gear that the tranny was actually in. The tach would jump, and the time difference between that and punching the accelerator would be engine braking. Again, good reaction times help minimize this.
The IS300 isn't very powerful off-the-line. Where its drivetrain seems to shine is at-speed (40-100mph).
The IS300 automatic transmission does not perform well when left in "D". It gives a very smooth power delivery for everyday driving, but damps the effects of sudden accelerator movements (drive-by-wire and ECT-i) and seems genuinely confused when the pedal is put to the metal. With the transmission in "M", pretty good performance can be achieved if you E-shift correctly. This is not as easy as it seems, since the transmission will downshift out of your gear selection (without indication) for you if the depression of your accelerator exceeds a certain point. It also doesn't help that you cannot select first gear.
From a stop, you would have to select "M2". As you mash the pedal, you look at the tach and wonder whether the transmission has decided to go with 1st or 2nd. If it's in 1st, you obviously wait until it shifts to 2nd and goes through that before you would have to do anything. But what if the transmission is already in 2nd? You would bump up against the rev limiter if you failed to shift, thinking that you were in 1st. The way to work this transmission properly (my opinion at this point in ownership) is brinksmanship. If the tach seems to be going all the way up to the limiter, you're probably in 2nd, so you would need to upshift RIGHT NOW (attention and fast reaction times help). The assumption is, being that 1st is a very low ratio, that even floored, 1st to 2nd does not occur at the maximum rpm.
At speed, you would downshift until you see that you have exceeded the gear that the tranny was actually in. The tach would jump, and the time difference between that and punching the accelerator would be engine braking. Again, good reaction times help minimize this.
Actually, C320's acceleration time is almost the same as the IS300, but you are right about the 330i that both manual and auto are slightly faster than IS300. One thing I do notice is that once you start getting mileage, like me at around 8000 miles or so, you will start to notice the car being a little bit "faster" or responsive. I don't have any number to prove this, but the feeling is just different. Also, tire pressure make a big difference, on both acceleration and fuel economy as well.
The 330 is NOT slightly faster. MT and CD both got 6.1 for the manual. The auto is proabably around 6.7. The IS has been tested from 7.5 to even as high as 8. A 1.5 second difference is about the difference between a 360 Modena and a 330. Get the point? The IS is slow. It may have other good qualities, but stop pretending it is fast. Lexus already did that for you.
330i auto = 7.1 0-60 not 6.7.
manual= 6.1 0-60 . See Video Clip Below... (5.3megs)
To View Video Clip Click Here and Enjoy.
Our IS300 does 7.0 Flat 0-60.
Smra.
BTW, That entire 330i Road Test Coming Soon over at the Site.
[This message has been edited by smra (edited November 12, 2000).]
manual= 6.1 0-60 . See Video Clip Below... (5.3megs)
To View Video Clip Click Here and Enjoy.
Our IS300 does 7.0 Flat 0-60.
Smra.
BTW, That entire 330i Road Test Coming Soon over at the Site.
[This message has been edited by smra (edited November 12, 2000).]
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1,258 Posts
smra, put on your flame suit - the blow torches will be out shortly to contest your claim!
7.1 is a BMW estimate. They also had 6.4 for manual. They are high to keep down premiums. Lexus does the opposite by estimating low to attract customers. Every mag has tested the IS above 7.5.
[This message has been edited by BMeRBoY (edited November 11, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by BMeRBoY (edited November 11, 2000).]
Joined
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1,258 Posts
Care to elaborate? Insurance premiums are based on how expensive the parts are and how many accidents occur in that particular car. Also, if the car is prone to theft.
I think you need to reiterate your statement. You are comparing the 0-60 differences between a ferrari and a bmw to the 0-60 difference between a bmw to a lexus by seconds. This is an incorrect method for comparing these differences. Why? Let me show you.
Candy bar A is 1 dollar, candy bar B is 2 dollars. That is a 50% difference. Now jacket A is 199 dollars and jacket B is 200 dollars. Both quantative differences are of 1 dollar, but the percentile difference is .5%. Obviously that isn't much of a difference when compared to the candy bars. I think there is a term for this methodology, but I forgot.
Now lets use your numbers. Ferrari is 4.6, BMW is 6.1 (manual). Now comparing the auto's ( lets be fair, an automatic can't even compare to a manual ) BMW is 6.7 and Lexus is 7.5.
The percentage differences:
Ferrari vs. BMW: Ferrari is ~25% faster.
BMW vs. Lexus: BMW is ~11% faster.
Hope this helps.
-crontab -l
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An Ecstatic Owner of a Fully-Loaded Graphite Gray 2001 Lexus IS 300
I meant the difference between the 330i auto and the IS300 auto is slightly different. There are few people here able to duplicate times claimed by Lexus, so I won't say Lexus is wrong. Also, I was looking at Car and Driver TV today when they tested IS300, and for some reason they didn't get any tire spin when they tested 0-60mph. That is very odd, as I was able to spin my tires for about a second when I just used 3/4 of throttle from start. Something just didn't seem right with that particular test (and I suspect the car, not the testers).
Anyway, IS is not that fast by any mean and I believe 99% of us owners know that. I don't think we are ignorant enough to go challenge a M coupe or 330i stick and expect to win the race, but you do have to realize that IS has some very good mid range acceleration.
Anyway, IS is not that fast by any mean and I believe 99% of us owners know that. I don't think we are ignorant enough to go challenge a M coupe or 330i stick and expect to win the race, but you do have to realize that IS has some very good mid range acceleration.
Yea, need to get into traffic from dead stop... The car has MORE than enough power!!
![]()
See Clip Below. (2megs)
Want Proof?? Click Here I Love That Smooth Engine Sound.
BTW, Video Footage of MidRange Passing Power ( 65mph-100mph ) coming SOON!
Smra.
The Car Has More Than Enough Low Medium & High Range Power!
[This message has been edited by smra (edited November 12, 2000).]
See Clip Below. (2megs)
Want Proof?? Click Here I Love That Smooth Engine Sound.
BTW, Video Footage of MidRange Passing Power ( 65mph-100mph ) coming SOON!
Smra.
The Car Has More Than Enough Low Medium & High Range Power!
[This message has been edited by smra (edited November 12, 2000).]
If the tires are spinning, the car ain't moving. To achieve the best 0-60 time you want minimal/no tire spin. You want your tires to have maximal contact with the road. For the same reason, drifting through a corner, though it may look cool, is probably the slowest way to go through the corner.
Young, the coefficient of friction in a spinning tire is not zero, it's just lower by 20% or so. The reason you DO want tire spin, is so that the revs can build up and you get into your power band. If the tires don't spin, the revs don't build up quickly (engine bogs down), and you get less power trasfered to the wheels. Ask any drag racer.
Drifting is another story, cause the engine RPM is not an issue, but it depends on the cornering speed. On a very tight, low-speed corner, drifting might be faster.
And guys, 7.5 sec 0-60 is NOT slow, for an automatic. Like I said before, an E30 M3 is not much quicker, but no one complained about that car 10 years ago.
Drifting is another story, cause the engine RPM is not an issue, but it depends on the cornering speed. On a very tight, low-speed corner, drifting might be faster.
And guys, 7.5 sec 0-60 is NOT slow, for an automatic. Like I said before, an E30 M3 is not much quicker, but no one complained about that car 10 years ago.
Young, you are right about tire spin, but ckolsen is right as well. Depending on what you are talking about, you sometimes need a bit of wheel spin to make sure you don't bog. The best example is S2000 tested by Road and Track (or Motortrend, don't quite remember which one). Because the tires and the track were both too sticky, the car was gripping too well, and what happen is that they bog every single launch attempt they had with S2000. This is very very harsh on the drivetrain, as many Eclipse owner had experience this and broke they axle because of bogging their launch.
A commom way to do this is by slipping your clutch a little. But you cannot do this in automatic, and either way you are slipping somewhere. All I am saying is that car they tested just didn't sound right at all, maybe just because I am looking at it through TV, but it took a while to build up revs. My car surely doesn't do that, at least now after 8K miles of driving.
A commom way to do this is by slipping your clutch a little. But you cannot do this in automatic, and either way you are slipping somewhere. All I am saying is that car they tested just didn't sound right at all, maybe just because I am looking at it through TV, but it took a while to build up revs. My car surely doesn't do that, at least now after 8K miles of driving.
I shouldn't have spoken in absolutes. Yes, when you're negotiating a tight turn you might want to kick your tail out. However, large drifts are normally a waste of time. As for the wheel spin, yes, you want to be in your power band...but in the ideal world you'd be in your power band when the tires are exactly at the limit of adhesion, no? In other word, the ideal dragster would have tires so grippy that they would barely spin if at all when they're launched in the power band and the dragster's drivetrain would be able to handle the forces (of course, the driver would probably be flatted to roadkill by the G-forces ^_^).
As for our "real" cars (the IS300 and the 330i), from what I've read, we'd probably get our best 0-60 times by brake torquing to about 2000 rpm. I don't think you'd get a large amount of wheel spin at that point.
[This message has been edited by Young (edited November 12, 2000).]
As for our "real" cars (the IS300 and the 330i), from what I've read, we'd probably get our best 0-60 times by brake torquing to about 2000 rpm. I don't think you'd get a large amount of wheel spin at that point.
[This message has been edited by Young (edited November 12, 2000).]
Actually, I launched my car at stand still without any power braking and still managed to spin the tires for about a second or so. Kind of weird I think. Maybe my tires are kind of worn out already?
Anyway, the ideal case is to have all the power transfer from engine crankshaft to the ground, but most of time this does not happen. Even in Champ Car (cannot speak for F1 since I don't watch them enough), you can stall the car when launching at 8000rpm because there are too much grip in the tire and your engine doesn't have enough torque needed to push the car forward, so you either spin the tire or side step the clutch. I do wish we can launch the car just by stepping on it and without worrying about tire spin, slippage and other problems. But I highly this will happen.
Anyway, the ideal case is to have all the power transfer from engine crankshaft to the ground, but most of time this does not happen. Even in Champ Car (cannot speak for F1 since I don't watch them enough), you can stall the car when launching at 8000rpm because there are too much grip in the tire and your engine doesn't have enough torque needed to push the car forward, so you either spin the tire or side step the clutch. I do wish we can launch the car just by stepping on it and without worrying about tire spin, slippage and other problems. But I highly this will happen.
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