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It seems that Carlos Ghosn has really transformed Nissan Motor Co. Just a few years ago, the company was over $20 billion in debt, when Renault bought a controlling stake in it and embarked on a mission to resuscitate the troubled carmaker. Nissan's award-winning VQ series of engines, boosted to 3.5Litres in displacement and cloned as a V8, are being shoehorned across their product line and are taking the market by storm. The new Z, the G35 and G35C, the upcoming Quest, full-size pick-up trucks and full-size SUVs, the new Murano, and a soon-to-be-released new Maxima, are all very, very competitive in their respective segments. Rumor is that their full-size trucks will have a 5.2L V8, which will squash Toyota's 4.7L V8 in every way. It's pretty obvious that Nissan is serious about success and recapturing it's market presense. Unlike Toyota, Nissan is injecting performance and value across their entire product line. Once again, their vehicles are gaining popularity, and, inevitably, market share.
What puzzles me is that Toyota, supposedly the most profitable and 3rd largest automaker in the world, seems unconcerned by all this. They never upgrade/update their products mid-cycle, and even when a complete make-over is done, there are barely any "original" innovations or performance upgrades. Obviously, the market, at least in the US, demands more performance and better value from their vehicles. Take any Toyota/Lexus product, and aside from quality, they are lagging behind just about every other import manufacturer in every category. If they have developed the 3.3L V6, why are they waiting so long to put it across their product line? Why do they not put in VVTi in the severely underpowered 4.7L V8? Why, with their $20+ billion in reserves, have they been unable to produce a high-end and an affordable sports/image car? I know that none of us can answer these questions completely, but I am concerned about the future of Toyota Motor Co. I've always been a fan of their products, but the competition seems to be leaving them in the dust. Their lack of innovation and performance is shameful.
I really wish they'd do something about it. They may think that the majority of thier customers are happy with their plain vanilla, underpowered cars, but they're not! And now they have equally reliable options that offer much better performance and value for money.
 

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I assume toyota knows something about the "big picture" that the rest of us don't. i suspect part of this might be tha nissan's popularity with sales could easily be a fad, just like how honda was very popular in the 90s.

i have heard a lot about the piss poor quality of nissan interiors, and have experienced this myself with my maxima. while their vehicles look good now, perhaps their interior quality could come back and bite them in the ass in a few years. i don't really know, shrug
 

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Um. I'd take a toyota over a nissan...

I think Toyota's reputation is what ensures their sales.
Plus, how many people are in the performance market? Not too many people care that Nissan may have 15 hp more or whatever.
 

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Im sure that Toyota has researched the market in great depth. I also wouldn't doubt that Toyota has a direct competitor to the 350Z coming soon (new Supra as the rumors have it).

Toyota is incredibly competent in dealing with the competition. But I ask, why fix what ain't broke?

Toyota makes the number one selling car world wide...the Corolla. When running a business, especially a global business where losses can easily be in the billions, its all about profit.

Look at the tire company Firestone. Their ruined because of a faulty line of tires.

Toyota has the ability to produce another Supra, and in my eyes they will do it relativily soon. It will just take time.

Another thing, Nissan is coming out of a slump. To do that they have no choice but to offer performance at a reasonable price in order to drive sales up. By having one engine (in variations) across all their platforms, they save money. By offering "more bang for the buck", they draw in customer who normally would consider someone else. But by trying to save money, usually another aspect is given up in exchange. Like someone said earlier, Nissan's interiors aren't the greatest...and it shows. So give Nissan a few years before coming to a conclusion on their new line of beefy perfomance at a reasonable cost.
 

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:roll: Wheres all this superior interior quality your talking about? I was a car wholesaler for 5 years and was moving 40 cars a month and have seen the whole gamut of interiors. The car your driving is full of cheap plastic.
I have heard more excuses about the "IS" and toyota brands and truly wonder how you can back any of it up.
"toyota is the 3rd largest producer..............yada yada" yeah because of the freaking camary.
Audi's smoke any lexus's interior........well the 430 series stuff is getting there.
The only true performer was the Supra...........Oh and I love it when the IS can get smoked by a malibu, and then its the" well I am gonna turbo and then we will see, I have the same engine as the supra(not)"
Check your heads and know your roll's..............oh and buy your turbo's cause the G35 and the C kick your ass bad. So do alot of other cars but I am done.

Grease it putz's :lol:
 

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VainGlutton said:
:roll: Wheres all this superior interior quality your talking about? I was a car wholesaler for 5 years and was moving 40 cars a month and have seen the whole gamut of interiors. The car your driving is full of cheap plastic.
I have heard more excuses about the "IS" and toyota brands and truly wonder how you can back any of it up.
"toyota is the 3rd largest producer..............yada yada" yeah because of the freaking camary.
Audi's smoke any lexus's interior........well the 430 series stuff is getting there.
The only true performer was the Supra...........Oh and I love it when the IS can get smoked by a malibu, and then its the" well I am gonna turbo and then we will see, I have the same engine as the supra(not)"
Check your heads and know your roll's..............oh and buy your turbo's cause the G35 and the C kick your ass bad. So do alot of other cars but I am done.

Grease it putz's :lol:
You, sir, are truly a moron. No one was talking about any "superior interiors"....so I don't know what thread you're in. We were talking about interior for price value...and you get what you pay for.

Second, Toyota isn't the third largest car manufacturer in the world because of the camry...its the corrolla....Mr. Smarty pants :roll:

But let me guess, you think its the camry cause it costs more than the corrolla. Fuckin' dolt!


And anyhow, no one was discussing whether nissan or toyota or even the IS was better...we were discussing Nissan's plans for the market.

You fucking moron. Shut up and go sell your 40 cars a month :roll:
 

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Nissan is turning out some really nice products, but that doesn't ensure success. They probably spent a lot of development dollars on this new product offensive, and if the sales don't do well enough, they'll be in big trouble. Toyota seems happy just selling the same old stuff with minimal development costs, and it seems to be working. They better be careful though, if consumers wise up to Toyota's game, they may lose their advantage.
 

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toyota has own a great foundation in the past and the present, but i have to agree that their future seems to be quite bleak....

in its own perspective, most auto industry nowadays has evolve, trying to reach a better standard and its own place in the market.

for example honda and bmw, despite their success through the years, they have never even once stop to revolutionize their product, making them even more compatible with the current market.

but toyota seems to be quite low-profile... lets just hope that they really do have some big plans under their sleeves, or soon, even the great lexus service will go down the drain due to their lack of fund....

....oh and yes....
VainGlutton you are a moron....
 

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VainGlutton said:
fugazi if you werent such a bitch you would have read that the thread starter stated that about toyota......being 3rd and all.
you suck your dads [email protected] with that mouth?
and if you could understand english, you would have noticed that you mocked the fact that toyota was third in due to the camry. I, on the other hand, was correcting your hill billy ass by saying that toyota isn't third because of the camry, but rather the corrolla.

Your lack of intelligence amuses me. Instead of debating like a logical person would, your monkey sized brain can only resort to 3rd grade insults.

:roll:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Don't get me wrong, I admire Toyota's business model and their high quality products. Heck, my family's had Toyota's for the last 3 decades, and they're very reliable, affordable cars. My point is that now people have much better options, and better values. Toyota seems very good at immitating, but very bad at innovating. Take their flagship car, the LS430. It's a wonderful car, but when it was brought to the market it offered nothing new/exclusive. On the contrary, when MB introduced the new S-class, they had over 100 new/exclusive features that won them many patents. Not to mention, they don't wait at all to step up to the competition - they recently injected twin-turbos to their V12 engines, mid-cycle, started offering supercharged V6s and V8s in their performance line, and every time they introduce a new product, it becomes a class leader. BMW and Audi do the same. Now Jaguar is offering an all-aluminum XJ, which will be the lightest full-size luxury sedan in its class. Honda just came out with the spectacular Accord. Their Acura 3.2TL, MDX, and RSX are also very competitive and popular, not to mention the Odyssey, Pilot, and Element - all of which are very popular. And, of course, I mentioned Nissan's new products.
Conversely, when Toyota introduced the 2002 Camry, it offered mere improvements in design and a little more room than the previous model. That's it! The engine, though somewhat more refined, still offered below average power, and the car had no innovative edge over its competitors. The new Corolla seems like a big improvement over its predecessor, but that's just one model. Over-all, their products seem to lack emotion, and are thus bland and un-inspiring. Perhaps they should hire German engineers/designers and redo their flagship and let that new design trickle down their product line. Of course, they must, must bring in the "image" cars - a V10/V12 powered supercar and a V6/V8 powered affordable sports car.
 

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Toyota is the de facto numero uno car company in the world. I was just looking at the result of JD Powers long term reliabiliity survey for 1998/1998 models a few days ago and Lexus is just off the charts. Actually, Lexus was topping the chart.

It is interesting that hasanazhar mentioned Mercedes Benz and I must say that they are in trouble. Mercedes was so far below even industry average reliablity that I was shocked. You can have all the 600hp-twin-turbo V-12's in the world, but if customers have to put in three fuel pumps and two window regulators under warranty your company is in trouble. I know that PT Barnum said one was born every minute, but Mercedes can't have them all, some will inevitably buy Audi/VW's instead.

Nissan is on a nice run presently. But I wish they would stop making everything so UGLY. Q and A time:

Why doesn't Toyota upgrade midcycle? I believe that it hurts quality and Toyota usually gets it right the first time.

Why does Audi do such good interiors? When you are serving warmed over VW parts at a premium you can afford to splurge a little.

Is Toyota third because of the Camry/Corolla/et.al.? Yes/yes/yes they are third because they compete across the board with models that break less often and sell well new or used.[/img]
 

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As much as I love performance enhanced cars I'll settle for a well made car over just performance anyday. Now to have the best of both worlds would be nice, but I'm willing to wait it out with Toyota/Lexus. The Lexus people do read these forums and our opinions make it all the way up to the head guys once in awhile so, I have faith in Toyota/Lexus.

As far as Nissan is concerned I think only time will tell, just look at Audi for instance. I remember Audi's being the biggest pieces of shit on the road at one time, that was if they were actually able to satrt and make it onto the road in the first place. But look at what they've done with themselves, they have really made up for what was done in the past in almost every way. I still may not buy an Audi, but they have definately impressed me alot more every time I have the opportunity to ride in one, or just admire the interiors quality and for the most part the guys I know with their Audis love 'em and have not had the mechanical failures they were notoriously known for in the past.

Toyota in my opinion is like the slow turtle racing against the hare, understand what I mean? The hare my be faster and more agile, but from what that tale teaches us is that the turtle always wins in the end.


Patience Daniel-son...patience.
 

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>> Audi's smoke any lexus's interior

Have you ever sat in an audi? My interior is nicer and everything is designed better in my 1995 SC (which goes back to '91) than my bro's 2000 S4. VW is better than mercedes (in my parents S500 there are something like 15 buttons just for to control the air conditioning and heater) How much praise did the LS430 get because it was the best designed interior? Yes, it was compared to the new S500 (forgot which mag). The A8 was horrible. However, I haven't seen the interiors on the NEW, redesigned audis (2001 and up).

Toyota knows what they are doing. Lexus is one of the best selling Luxury car companies and they don't have performance on par with the upper cars like the M5 and C32. Most people that buy cars don't buy them for performance, those that do (as most of us) are a small niche.

I like what nissan is doing, they are seperating themselves. But Toyota always plays the waiting game. I mean, how many years did it take them to finally introduce a V8 in a pickup truck? I would expect the 4.7 to be increased soon though ... the new V6 is putting down more hp and just a little less torque than the V8. This is usually a sign that the 4.7 will be replaced.

and all this talk about toyota only being about the camry... that's not that unique. ford is all about the f150 platform, all car companies have to have a moneymaker.
 

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I know we are all gonna have a difference of opinion, and fugazi dont take everything I say to literal and add just a hint of sarcasm and you might pass that gas blockage between your ears by tomorrow. Flush twice.
Toyota has been (including lexus) the most maintence free vehicle I have ever owned. I did say that the new 430 series are a much needed refinement. The sc series has never been that nice of a car until the 430. I have owned two. I have owned an LS, IS, ES, as well. The GS still calls. Anyway they were OK. I didnt feel LIke I was in a Lexus they way people make it seem. I have a 95 S500 coupe and thats the shit. Stainless steel pieces and real quality through out. Even the trunk latch is Luxury. The new MB's are, well, like lexus's, worse even esp the drivetrain.
I still deeply admire the Audi's interior quality. Its been said on here as well on Bimmer and a few other sites I troll. They are not very reliable though long term......thats what I have run into selling 1 car a year??? Fools.
Nissan has always had a great following of die hards for good reason and there agressive stance currently puts them real close to the top. "close" use it how you may. Could mean fifth right fuggazi........oh and acid in 96...........take 15 thousand micro's of real cid and after your fifth year of lithium come back and tell me how raping bunnies felt.
I actually am less concerned about most of this and am rambling for the most part. I havent owned any ferraris or Porsches yet but I have owned or atleast driven for a week or two most cars. The lines are blurring with tech being so much more affordable. Toyota great car. Nissan great car. Hyundai.....ok excavators I prefer Cat or Hitachi.
 

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VainGlutton said:
.......oh and acid in 96...........take 15 thousand micro's of real cid and after your fifth year of lithium come back and tell me how raping bunnies felt.
I'm sorry. But I somehow lack the ambition to do lithium for five years. Thanx anyhow. But I am curious about your experience...
 

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I tend to agree that Nissan basically had to do more. They were in such a a precarious financial situation that they simply had to make it count. I think they will take some market share from Toyota, but nothing earth shattering. Toyota is a plain vanilla car, Lexus is the Vanilla version of the Mercedes. There are many people who want a nice car and don't want that car to scream look at me.

As far as Nissan having inferior interiors, I disagree. You may not like them, but they are adequate and certainly on par with Toyota. I do take issue with Nissan for doing shiet like using the center console out of the 350Z for the G35coupe, but hey when you are strapped you gotta cut corners. Even so, these cars are a relative bargain. You can bet your ass that a new Supra will be upwards of 40K.
 

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Nissan's strategy was two-fold. Part 1 was COST CUTTING (evident in all their new products). Part 2, which is now is SALES. They are ramping up production to sell as many cars as possible.

They look good but in reading numerous boards, people love the looks and power but the dealer sucks and quality sucks. Also, Maxima and G35c owners are wondering where is the extra hp, since their cars are as fast as the Altima.

Toyota ownsz Nissan, hell Honda is the 2nd largest auto co from Japana and they have a handful of cars and NO trucks.
 
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