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Discussion Starter #1
is anybody out there familiar enough with the car to provide a detailed lesson on when, and how to use the shift buttons on the steering wheel?...the dealer couldn't.
 

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Ok, here's what happens when you use Manual Mode.

If you put the car in (M)anual and the display says 5 (where it defaults), the car behaves EXACTLY as if you left it in (D)rive, except that the buttons are now active.

Meaning, when the display says 5, you're letting the auto tranny have all 5 gears to play with and if you never press the buttons, the car will drive and shift, just like if it was in (D)rive.

When you push down to any of the other numbers, you are simply limiting the gears allowed and the engine not shift past the gear shown in the display. What this means is you only have control of upshifts past the indicated gear and limited control of downshifts.

Some of this behavior sounds pointless. For example, if you floor it, the car will basically not shift until redline (on my car it looks it waits until the redline and then shifts) which is pretty much where you would shift for maximum acceleration anyway... It's the downshift behavior that I'd rather have more control of. In other words, I'd rather the car shift automatically upwards at redline (instead of bouncing off the limiter) and NOT downshift until I tell it to...

All in all, I like the system and basically use it like this. I put the car in (M)anual by habit and if I want to use the buttons I will. But I typically only use them to force the car into a downshift prior to or at a turn or when passing.

Hope this helps.


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Tony
'01 Spectra Blue
 

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Ack, I hate the e-shift. I just don't understand why Lexus would market a "sporty" car without a manual! Lazy automatic people can buy basically anything else, but even Civics and Accords have manual transmissions! (for price reasons, but still!) Manual doesn't seem like a chore to me as it does to other people, and if it does, then buy something else!
 

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Originally posted by shadoh6:
Ack, I hate the e-shift. I just don't understand why Lexus would market a "sporty" car without a manual! Lazy automatic people can buy basically anything else, but even Civics and Accords have manual transmissions! (for price reasons, but still!) Manual doesn't seem like a chore to me as it does to other people, and if it does, then buy something else!
Shadoh6,

Wow This is a Pretty Strong Post!!
How old are you if you don't mind me asking?

Im sure it would have been better if Lexus
had built a Manual From the start...
But people who Like Automatics "Lazy" ??
Not Hardly!!! We are far from it.

Believe it or not "Most People" prefer Autos
to Manual. I've had Both. And I would NEVER
own another Manual.
So as you see "Different Stokes For Different
Folks"

Thats what makes the World Go Around...
But Lazy????

You should Follow "us" around for a day.....
 

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Agreed, the "lazy" description was innapropriate, however, to market a car that has the BMW 3 series as it's target and then to fail to offer a manual transmission is/was ridiculous.
 

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shadoh6, the fact that the IS doesn't have manual suggests maybe YOU should get something else.
Lexus try to beat the 330 and C to the market. Among other imperfection, they did not have enough time to develop a new manual for it's current engine in doing so. Can't you people just understand that. It's all about business and marketing strategy; Lexus wants to be the "first mover".
 

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In Lexus public statement, instead of admitting in putting out an unfinished product, they rather say oops, we didn't think manual will be desirable or needed to compete in this segment.
 

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Lexus' decision not to initially bring a manual tranny to market was not due to lack of development time, it was because they realize that most people don't want a manual. Lexus has had little success in marketing manual transmissions in the past so the decision was made not to offer one.

It was only when Lexus North America stressed the importance of a manual, if only for image's sake, that the decision was made to move forward. Of course, Lexus won't admit this, but spin like this is common. BMW claimed that reason the 323 was named 323 and not 325 was due to a diesel model in Europe and the upcoming M-Benz C240 will actually have a 2.6l engine and they claim it is due to a previously popular model in Europe. Enthusiasts see right through this, but these are minor issues.

Even after Lexus brings the manual to market the percentage of buyers opting for a manual will most likely be less than 25%. Nevertheless sometimes it is necessary to produce a vehicle that will not be a volume product but will be an image product. Lexus' credibility would have been further enhanced if they had offered a manual transmission.
 

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some thoughts on the manual tranny discussion...

I think it has more to do with marketing - by only offering the auto in the first year of release, the will be able to sell the manuals that come out next year at the same price as the autos now, and charge extra for the auto upgrade - thus giving the appearance that the already high MSRP (which is the price that shows up on advertisements) hasn't increased substantially... when it will likely to increase by at least $2000 for the auto...

besides, the arg. suggesting that lexus had to develop a 'new' manual tranny doesn't fly, its parent(Toyota) has been offering manual trannies in both engine models of the Altezza for a couple of years...
 

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Originally posted by fishtail:


besides, the arg. suggesting that lexus had to develop a 'new' manual tranny doesn't fly, its parent(Toyota) has been offering manual trannies in both engine models of the Altezza for a couple of years...
From what I have read, certifying an engine with a new transmission for OBD-II can take quite some time. I am sure what happened was that the decision to offer the manual was made too late to get all of the proper emissions / OBD-II certifications.

Evidently OBD-II is a real pain in the neck and is very expensive. This is why a lot of times car makers won't offer a manual transmission here even when they have the same engine / transmission / drivetrain elsewhere in the world.

I can relate to shadoh6 in his lamentations that few manuals are offered except in economy cars and high-performance sports cars. It can be very frustrating when you want a manual transmission car but none are offered in the type of car that you need.

I went through this in my last car purchase and I really regret not having bought a manual transmission. At the time, there really weren't any appealing options. Fortunately with the IS300 and a few others I am actually excited of the prospects once I am ready to replace my current car.
 

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Fishtail, just for the record, the 6speed tranny in the 2 Altezza engines doesn't have the mechanical (torque) capacity to handle the current IS engine......Lexus had to develop a new one.
 

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That's a better question for the engineers, but do you really think the Supra tranny will bring the most out of the IS300 engine, performance wise and efficient wise?
Sure, slap that tranny on the Corolla too.
Better yet, make a universal one for every car out there.
 

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is the IS's inline 6 a close cousin to the Supra's powerplant? - curious

thought i heard that somewhere, that's why I suggested matching the Supra's tranny to the IS's
 

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The IS300's engine is same one used in the non-turbo MkIV Supra. The turbocharged engine is mostly the same but has small differences that make it suited for turbocharging.

[This message has been edited by JW (edited July 19, 2000).]
 

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I think the GS400 engine (EricK, your moment to shine) is the same as Supra, not the GS300 one that is used in the IS300.
Toyota already making/made a 5speed for IS300 so I am sure there is a good reason they opt to spend millions to do so as opposed to use the Supra one.
 

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Ack...the GS400 has a V8 engine. Supras have always had I6 engines (either NA or turbocharged). So the NA Supra engine is the same as the ones in the SC300, GS300, and now IS300.
 

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I would guess with autos only being available on the higher HP cars was due to marketing research. I don't think it is a matter of passing OBDII. Even when it was OBDI the situation was the same.

MPG is usually higher on a manual than as opposed to an auto. Which means that it is more efficient than auto. If it was manual, it would be easier to meet OBDII specs.

Transmissions have for the most part been interchangable between cars. for example the B16 in the civic SI and the B18C5 in the Intregra Type R have the same trannies, with differences only in gear ratios and differentials. in the case of the supra TT and NA, from what I understand the engines are identical aside from the fact that one is more suited for turbos. So mating the 6 spd TT tranny to the IS should not be a problem. But getting it to fit is probably another story.

jamie...


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#94STS -- Houston Region SCCA
'94 Civic SI
'92 Civic SI (parts car)
'84 BMW 325e
http://www.conecrazy.com

[This message has been edited by jamie (edited July 20, 2000).]
 

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Okay, here it goes...

most people: when I say lazy, ask yourself why you wouldn't want a manual. Is it because of the shifting? Because of the clutch? Because it makes you pay attention to what's going on in the car? What? After a while it becomes second nature. My first car was a manual by my choice! I knew that if I drove manual, I could easily drive automatic, but if I drove automatic I would be at a loss in a manual. The way I chose allowed me to drive essentially any automobie in the world! (slight exaggeration) Another reason I chose manual is because the Skyline GT-R and Lancer Evolution VI ONLY come in manual. The true sports cars of the world come in manual (and a few come in automatic for *lazy* millionaires.) Any sports car or *sporty* car has manual, whether it be a Maranello or an Integra. People buy fast cars not because of practicality but because they're fast, and automatics don't belong anywhere near them. Stick em in your luxury sedans, SUVs, and minivans, but keep them out of the fast cars. The day that the Corvette comes in only automatic is the day that thousands of old fogey car buffs jump off the bridge.

smra: I'm 17 and hot blooded!
If you think that pushing a third pedal, lifting and pressing your gas pedal, and moving a metal stick around is bothersome, then I can't see eye to eye with you. I am arguably the most lazy person I know! I procastinate whenever possible, I do things at the absolute last moment...yet, I don't think manual is some chore. It is part of driving. And driving isn't something that gets in the way of your cell phone conversation or bothers you as you try to make your kid shut up, it's something that requires attention and work! Gasp...just like a manual tranny!
And you can have your auto, that's fine, but for those who want better mpg and more involving driving experience, give us manual. And most people prefer auto because they've become used to a machine doing the shifting and don't want to bother with such base activities, after all this is a Lexus (sarcasm is turned all the way up mind you.)

Benster: *I* should get something else? Excuse me, but isn't the IS marketed towards younger drivers? Aren't they trying to entice my driving spirit with aluminum pedals, chronograph style gauge clusters, and an overall "spirited, driver-oriented automobile"? Well my spirited, driver-oriented self, as well as most people on this forum, (take a look at the poll on this subject) want manual. And while Lexus may have made it first to the finish line, making cars isn't some kind of race is it? I thought it was about making a car that lives up to it's image.

ralittle2: Lexus has had little success in manual because their other cars don't focus on the same group that the IS is. The GS line is fast, but is made for an older, "executive" group, while the SC still doesn't reach young enough to people who want a car that is fast, affordable, and manual. And you're probably right about the sales figures for manual, but for people who go to this forum every day to check the new messages like some drug addiction, (including me
) it means that Lexus understands the needs of their strongest supporters.
 
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