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Discussion Starter #1
OK,
Yes, I've searched and read the archives.
No, I'm not trying to "compare" the cars for fun.

Here's the problem:
I'm 2.5 mos away from buying a new car. I have a wife and 3 kids. I can get Fords, Lincolns, Jags??, Volvo's, and Porshes (spelling) on Ford's "A" plan. Basically, usually 500-1000 below invoice guarunteed. The list of manufactures changes sometimes but I think that is the current list (could be wrong on some). I've never used it before. Ford never made anything that interested me.

IS300:
awesome styling IMHO.
eye-catcher
Equal performance??? (please help here)
smaller
Lexus service n reliability
Lexus prestige
Limited options for this year

Lincoln LS V8:
Not ugly IMHO, but kinda blah
more luxurious and classier looking (but not as sporty looking)
more options (nav?, dual climate, memory seats, etc)
equal performance???
more expensive car for less price
larger
not as much an eye catcher
not as prestigious
no lexus service

Please help. I like foriegn cars better than american, but the LS isn't your everyday american car. I think i like the IS better, but the price savings on the LS is haunting me.
Thanks in advance, sorry about the novel.
 

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If I had a wife and 3 children I would buy a Lexus GS300 and was looking at the budget of the LS-V8.....The GS300 has the best of both worlds.... The attributes of IS300 and LS in one..
Eric..
 

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Man - thats a tough one.

Yes, with 3 kids, the IS will seem pretty small inside very quickly.

With your mega-discount I would be pretty tempted by the Lincoln LS (or a Jaguar) even though they won't have the quality or reliability you can expect of a Lexus.

The upcoming Jaguar "X400" model (which will be based on the same platform as the new Europe-Only Mondeo) should be here soon. It will definately be an IS300 competitor and is expected to have all wheel drive as an option.
 

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Lincoln = Not a Lexus...in terms of resale, quality and value for the coin.

I have a Merc Mountaineer...while it is a better ride than an Explorer (as far as creature comfies goes) it is still a Ford deep down...

I think the Lexus IS300 is the best overall value out there save the CL SType w/ nav...but the CLS only has two doors...that was the major draw back for me.

Can't go wrong with the GS 430 though...abosultely the bomb
 

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If you are putting three kids in the back everyday then rule out the IS right now. If it's only going to be once in a while then that is a different story.

A discount doesn't mean $hit if you don't like the car and from your list it's obvious to me that you don't really like the LS. If you can afford a GS3 or 4 then yeah go for it. If you need to be in the low 30's then maybe an Avalon. Avalon = big back seat with Toyota reliability.

Please don't cheap out just because you have the A plan. Go with what you want. My .02.

------------------
cardinal
'01 Silver/Black
LS, LD, HH, SR, 17"
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks so far guys. . .
BTW, the wife n kiddies isn't an everyday thing, more like once a week or so.
I'm not trying to "cheap-out" but I do need to stay less than 35K or 600/mo.
I don't want a used car either. I never had a new one and am determined to do so.
Lastly, anyone have some accurate perfomance figures for the LS?
The IS figures seem pretty consistant, but the LS (V8) ones vary a lot. I've seen 7.1 to 8+. Not a major issue, but anything helps. I really was gunning for the LS prior to my knowledge of the IS.
I'm clearly stuck.
 

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echoing the other comments that with 3 kids, the IS300 is not the car for you.

Sounds like you're in a toss up between the IS300 and the Lincoln LS.

I actually like the Lincoln LS. It's a decent sporty looking American car. (not your usual Lincoln boat). With a 3.9L V8 pushing 252 horses, this car should be able to keep up with the IS300 and even pass it. Motor Trend clocked the IS300 0-60 at 7.4 whereas the Lincoln LS V8 was at 7.2 secs. Of coarse speed is not everyone's priority, especially for those lugging kids around like you and I (I have one kid on the way!!). Handling wise the IS300 will run rings around the Lincoln and will feel much more nimble. But the Lincoln will give you more room and comfort.

The only caveot is relaibility of a Ford car. I read recently that there was a defective transmission control module causing hard shift points in the V8 LS's automatic transmissions.
 

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Can I make a suggestion? I know you want a new car but...you could find a low mileage 91-93 M5 for that much or even less. Room for the family, safe and will put a grin on your face everyday. The newness of an LS would wear off after a month.

You should be able to find some real nice examples in Florida. You at least owe yourself a test drive.

An example of a typical test drive by a car buyer, from the M5 board:

"Hi guys (am I right? LOL), My local BMW dealership has a '93 M5 for sale. I test drove it and well...F*** ME! This is the first time I've driven a Bimmer since this is the first time I've realistically looked at buying one. I've been in a friend's '99 GS400 and being almost 7 yrs older, this thing is far more impressive. It's been about 7 hours since I drove it and my back still remembers the sweet feel of the seats. The Lexus' are nice but far worse than these and I'm a big guy. The car looks, feels and drives 100% like what I've always wanted. It has better looking wheels than stock, it's a very nice colour (inside and out). It has 98k km on it. It seems to be well maintained (clean, no scratches, tares in the leather etc.), one owner, dealer inspected and so on. They want 39,900 Canadian for it, so about 26 US. BTW, is this the 310 or 340 motor? It sure felt stronger than my friend's 4 Litre, leading edge technology 300hp Lexus."


Just go drive one. Make sure the oil temp is to 180 degrees and then stick your foot in it. I apologize in advance for leading you down the road of M5 infatuation. Your wife gets jealous and accuses you of loving the car more than her. Which of course isn't true...most of the time.

I was looking at a new 328i when I bought mine or a 97-98 M3 4 door. I drove the M5 and never looked back.
 

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Eric, no offense meant towards GS400, he just happened to compare the two. The M5 isn't that much faster than the GS under 60mph but it seems faster (engine is louder, etc.).

BTW, checkout www.m5springboard.com for buyer's checklist etc.
 

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Originally posted by Almost There:
Thanks so far guys. . .
BTW, the wife n kiddies isn't an everyday thing, more like once a week or so.
I'm not trying to "cheap-out" but I do need to stay less than 35K or 600/mo.
I don't want a used car either. I never had a new one and am determined to do so.
Lastly, anyone have some accurate perfomance figures for the LS?
The IS figures seem pretty consistant, but the LS (V8) ones vary a lot. I've seen 7.1 to 8+. Not a major issue, but anything helps. I really was gunning for the LS prior to my knowledge of the IS.
I'm clearly stuck.
That 8+ second 0-60 time for the LS is from the Road & Track comparison test which was done at 5000+ feet above sea level. That's why it's so much slower than all the other magazines. If you want to keep your payments below $600/month, a GS300 maybe in your range, depending on how much the Lexus dealer near you will budge on the price.
 

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Erik, if you get the IS, plan on some lubricant to get al three kids in. The Lincoln is a nice option. But buy it used. I would really go for the GS300. It is very comfy.
 

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i like the way the lincoln looks, but its not for me. i didnt consider buying american (except the prowler, hummer or navigator) when i was looking for a car... but i dont have any kids and didnt want a honda (everyone and their grandma drives one here) and the IS is the perfect car for me...
whatever you buy, make sure you won't regret it.
 

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i know that i'm a newbie at posting here but here's some logic for you. How many times have you seen a lexus broken down on the side of the road? Lincoln? Hmmmmmmmm.

Let me back this up with something my cousin showed me. He works as a engineering representative for a ball bearing company. The story goes like this....Once upon a time, GM needed to source ball bearings for their alternators. You know, the things that "generate" a current to push back into your battery so you car keeps a goin'. These bearing thingie's are always spinning in motion when the car is going. Anyway, my cousin the engineering rep says "for this application you needed higher quality, more heat resistant bearing - stainless steel. So what did GM do? They bought the cadmium-plated bearing that were something like .02 cents cheaper per unit than the stainless steel. My cousin trips becuase THESE BEARING WILL FAIL PREMATURELY. I.E. the car stops running and you and your family are on the side of the road in God knows where. The significance? GM/FORD/Saturn/the domestics ALL SOURCE FROM GENERALLY the SAME MANUFACTURERS. Ie, there's a good chance the same mentality went into producing that Lincoln. Now, it might seem like i'm bashing new american cars (i love 60's muscle cars btw) but>>>> I AM. You can do what you want to do of course. But it might be a good idea to consider some more things...good luck. (want to see some horror stories of Ford products...type in "WindStar Problems" into your browser...yippee. Try the same for Lexus problems. Or go into Deja news groups for real time postings of peoples problems...query "lincoln problems" in the ford/lincoln newsgroup...it really makes a good read...ewww!)
 

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whoops, forgot to add something. For an easier way to check problems go into
www.alldata.com

They probably won't have much data on the new lincoln. But you can get an idea of Lincoln vs Lexus (or any car for that matter) reliability by the amount of TSB's (technical service bullitens) that are posted. TSB's are issued from the car manufacturers to help their mechnics identify and fix problems that are identified in the course of a car's run. You'll see safety and recall information here too. Just go into the "service provider" part of the site and find your year and model. An eyeball comparision will tell you what kind of problems lincolns, fords, etc. will have. Also the severity...ie transmission problems are more significant than "paint code" problems. Hope this helps....
 
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