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Discussion Starter #1
Guys,
I am facing a difficult dilemma. I am looking at the IS300 or a BMW 330. The car must be auto (so my wife can drive it--I have a 1970 Torino GT 4 speed to curb my stick shift needs) and preferably remain under the 40K mark. I am big on acceleration, and would like the car to be a quick, fun driver. Also, I can wait for the 2002 model year if need be. So with that, I have a few questions I hope I can get some answers for:

1. Which is quicker in automatic flavors, the IS or the 330? Are there supporting numbers anywhere?

2. Does anyone know if Lexus will be offering an upgraded or tuned engine in 2002? If so, I would wait for the 2002.

As an FYI, the January Car&Driver previews the 2002 A4 with a 217 hp 3 litre. It touts a 0-60 time of 6.5 (with manumatic!)

So far, I think the IS is the car. I think to truley appreciate the BMW you need the stick shift, which isn't going to happen in this house. Not to mention the additional 5-8K in options. But now I am left wondering about the 2002 cars, especially with the revised Audi or a potentially faster IS300... should I wait?

Any help in this area appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
 

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If I were you, I would wait until 2002. I say this because there are rumors of a lot of changes as far as comfort to the IS in 2002. If time is not a factor, wait. I think this will make you and your wife alot happier.

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Though the 330 has the advantage as far as acceleration goes, you'd have a hell of a time getting one for under 40k. A friend of mine just bought the 330 with equivalent features to the IS300, and paid 50k. I'd have to say the IS300 has more "bang for the buck".
 

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Couple of things:
The 2002 A4 does 0-60 in 6.9 sec (manual) and 7.8 sec (auto) according to some European magazines. The 6.5 sec is for the manual, and probably the non-quattro, the quattro will be a little slower. The 330 auto is probably about 6.9 sec 0-60 according to a few magazines. There will be no engine upgrade for the IS300 next year.

Originally posted by MikeB:
Guys,
I am facing a difficult dilemma. I am looking at the IS300 or a BMW 330. The car must be auto (so my wife can drive it--I have a 1970 Torino GT 4 speed to curb my stick shift needs) and preferably remain under the 40K mark. I am big on acceleration, and would like the car to be a quick, fun driver. Also, I can wait for the 2002 model year if need be. So with that, I have a few questions I hope I can get some answers for:

1. Which is quicker in automatic flavors, the IS or the 330? Are there supporting numbers anywhere?

2. Does anyone know if Lexus will be offering an upgraded or tuned engine in 2002? If so, I would wait for the 2002.

As an FYI, the January Car&Driver previews the 2002 A4 with a 217 hp 3 litre. It touts a 0-60 time of 6.5 (with manumatic!)

So far, I think the IS is the car. I think to truley appreciate the BMW you need the stick shift, which isn't going to happen in this house. Not to mention the additional 5-8K in options. But now I am left wondering about the 2002 cars, especially with the revised Audi or a potentially faster IS300... should I wait?

Any help in this area appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
 

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I think if its speed you want I would wait to test drive the 2002 Audi A4.... Quattro system, 0-60 in 6.5 seconds (with Automatic, CVT), and competitive pricing (will be a few thousand cheaper than a comparably equipped BMW 330i)... If the car is for your wife, I was wondering why the C-class Mercedes Benz wasn't on your list as well. (because of high price?) ... Good Luck with your decision but you can't go wrong with any of the 4 cars (IS,3-series,A4, or C-class)... Any automotive company take a big gamble when introducing entry models in their line-up because they are usually the best seller. It seems the gamble has paid of for Lexus as their IS300 is a success in need of a little polishing. Nothing that 1-2 years won't help... Whatever the case may be I'd definitely wait for the 2002 model year..
Eric...



[This message has been edited by EricK (edited December 17, 2000).]
 

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Think about this for a sec guys, the current A4 2.8 manual does 0-60 in 7.1, the auto in 8.2 sec (Audiusa.com). With only 27 more hp, and more weight, you think the auto will drop from 8.2 to 6.5 sec? No, look up some A4 previews, they say 6.9 sec for the MANUAL.

Originally posted by EricK:
I think if its speed you want I would wait to test drive the 2002 Audi A4.... Quattro system, 0-60 in 6.5 seconds (with Automatic, CVT)
 

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Originally posted by ckolsen:
Think about this for a sec guys, the current A4 2.8 manual does 0-60 in 7.1, the auto in 8.2 sec (Audiusa.com). With only 27 more hp, and more weight, you think the auto will drop from 8.2 to 6.5 sec? No, look up some A4 previews, they say 6.9 sec for the MANUAL.

Originally posted by EricK:
I think if its speed you want I would wait to test drive the 2002 Audi A4.... Quattro system, 0-60 in 6.5 seconds (with Automatic, CVT)
yeah I don't know where Car & Driver got their figures however it states that the 6.5 0-60 time (for manual and Automatic)is "Audi's Accleration number" and traditionally Audi is conservative with their acceleration figures.... who knows...?Whatever the case may be, the car will be significantly faster than the A4 it replaces and will probably be able to run with IS300's..
Eric....
 

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Discussion Starter #8
ckolsen, are we definate there is no engine upgrade, or tuned version, for next year?

Another poster on another board was claiming there was.

As for the A4, this data was taken from pg. 29 of January's C&D, as reflected from Audi. Certainly it's not for the quattro, but that isn't what I am looking for.
 

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I have that C&D issue, you're right, I guess the CVT must give it good acceleration, I wouldn't buy one though, I think they're weird and counterintuitive. I like to listen to the engine to tell what gear I'm in and how fast I'm going, and a CVT makes it impossible to tell anything by engine sound. I've never heard any reputable sources say there's an engine upgrade, and many sources say negative, so I seriously doubt it. Doesn't need one in fact.

Originally posted by MikeB:
ckolsen, are we definate there is no engine upgrade, or tuned version, for next year?

Another poster on another board was claiming there was.

As for the A4, this data was taken from pg. 29 of January's C&D, as reflected from Audi. Certainly it's not for the quattro, but that isn't what I am looking for.
 

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I agree. An engine upgrade is not needed. This is a smooth a powerful engine that is more than capable of handling the weight and size of the IS300.

A better idea is to change the gear ratios.

But I still believe automatic to automatic, Lexus did a great job of going after the BMW on its first pass with the IS300 in the US. It performs as well, or better in most performance categories, and does so for thousands less.

Besides the manual and NAV, what other comfort features will be added???
 

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I would go with lexus. This is why. My family has always driven BMWs, then one day a woman hit my father's 750IL. when he took it to the bmw dealer he traded it even for a new 740il crashed and all. well he drove the 740 for 6K miles and the motor went out. He offered then to pay them $.32 a mile deprecation for the mileage if he could trade back up to a 750. They said no. well new motor was installed ant at 14K miles (8K later) it did the same thing. He told the dealer that he was not happy....etc etc etc. Then BMW of north America got involved. Dad said he would pay $.50 a mile deprecation + cash to trade into a new 750IL The BMW rep said no. Dad said well i don't want this car anymore. I paid $50+K for a POS. I mean the car has had 2 motors in 14K miles. The rep said i know this, Dad said well what are you going to do about this. He said nothing. Dad went on to explain that all he has ever owned is bmw and went down the list. 88 750il, 90 750il, 91 325 convert. 92 850c, 92 750i, 93 735il, 94 750il, 95 850csi, 96 M3 and you are going to tell me that you will not honor my wishes? the rep said yea, you can hear good. dad goes i have 4 BMW at my house now. If you don't work something out I will never own another one again. the rep said so, Dad goes over the last 8 years i have spent close to million dollars with you. rep said so i dont care you not buying BMW's anymore will not hurt us at all. Dad said fine. we went home and he traded them the next day on a LS400, MBSL500, GMC Suburban and a boat.
Then BMW had the nerve to call and ask how he was enjoying "The ultimate driving Machine"


[This message has been edited by KERR (edited December 18, 2000).]
 

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Hey MikeB go back and read the post i said "i THINK its suppossed to get like 20 hp or something", i didn't say it was. Anyhow glad to see you found the site
 

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Originally posted by JAWS:

But I still believe automatic to automatic, Lexus did a great job of going after the BMW on its first pass with the IS300 in the US. It performs as well, or better in most performance categories...
That's just not true. The 330i (with automatic) with sports package has better 0-60 times, better skidpad numbers, better slalom numbers, and better handling at the limit than the IS300 (according to magazine accounts). The IS300 has a higher top speed, and that's only because BMW limits the top speed electronically to 128 mph for the US Market . Without the limiter (i.e., with a chip upgrade), the 330i tops the IS300 in even this category.
 

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Originally posted by Young:
That's just not true. The 330i (with automatic) with sports package has better 0-60 times, better skidpad numbers, better slalom numbers, and better handling at the limit than the IS300 (according to magazine accounts). The IS300 has a higher top speed, and that's only because BMW limits the top speed electronically to 128 mph for the US Market . Without the limiter (i.e., with a chip upgrade), the 330i tops the IS300 in even this category.

Glad you get something more for your 10 grand!
 

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They also threw in two cool BMW key chains for the extra 10K. ^_^

I'll never make the claim that the BMW is a better bargain, but you generally get what you pay for.
 

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What magazine have you seen the 330 post higher skidpad and slalom numbers? Im just curious because in all the comparisons (328i vs. IS) I have seen, the IS has had higher numbers.

Justy
99 328i

Originally posted by Young:
That's just not true. The 330i (with automatic) with sports package has better 0-60 times, better skidpad numbers, better slalom numbers, and better handling at the limit than the IS300 (according to magazine accounts). The IS300 has a higher top speed, and that's only because BMW limits the top speed electronically to 128 mph for the US Market . Without the limiter (i.e., with a chip upgrade), the 330i tops the IS300 in even this category.



[This message has been edited by ISsoon (edited December 18, 2000).]
 

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Originally posted by Young:
They also threw in two cool BMW key chains for the extra 10K. ^_^

I'll never make the claim that the BMW is a better bargain, but you generally get what you pay for.
Young, you're always a good sport.
If money were no object, then I would have given the 330 more consideration, but as it was, I decided to cap my car expenditure to 32-34k.
 

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Originally posted by ISsoon:
What magazine have you seen the 330 post higher skidpad and slalom numbers? Im just curious because in all the comparisons (328i vs. IS) I have seen, the IS has had higher numbers.
I think it was C&D, but I'll have to look it up. By the way, the performance numbers that Lexus advertising often quotes are for BMWs _without_ the sports package. But why would anyone concerned about performance buy a non-sports package BMW?
 
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