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oops..that post was meant for my thoughts on the EVOLVE car..not the "is300 fighter"..

..on off note...cars like the rx-evolve, that new cadillac car that looks fo futuristic that its wierd? ..all these new concept cars.....they look so far stretched and i dunno if id buy a car that looked like something like that.
 

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After much consideration, I still prefer TEG's riced-up Lexus Cavalier......

[From TEG: LOL!!!]



[This message has been edited by TEG (edited August 30, 2000).]
 

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well...i'm sure as far as designs go, that's how the car makers will be making them from now on, and who knows, i think it will catch iwth the general public. from waht i've seen, we're turning space age, and i might end up buying used cars from the 90s for the rest of my life(j/k) :p
 

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Discussion Starter #7
ok ignore that evolve thing/car on the top of the page....what about this Mazda rotary sedan at the bottom..any thoughts on that?
 

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Mazda mgmt seems to be saying that the project is a "go", but it will be at least a year or two before we see any product.

I think the engine will be basically the same, but the actualy production car will look quite a bit different then either of those pictures.
 

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The sedan on that picture looks nice.....definitely has resemblance of the IS.....

I personally think that it can be used as the next generation Toyota Altezza.....
 

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I read about 3 different car mags and have been a fan and very interesed in the Evolv sedan, its shape, power and interior for some time now. I haven't heard much about it lately, but I do know it garnered sufficient interest at the Motor Shows in Japan, Geneva and the United States.
Throughout the years I have seen prototypes, or one-offs come and go, but to see this one disappear into oblivion would be disheartening. As far as it being an IS fighter, when I saw 276HP and the weight and technology, I thought it could fight in almost any class against a number of heavy German, Japanese and American "mettle."
I saw the new Pontiac Aztec and had mixed, but good emotions. The Mazda is to sport and solid design as the Aztec is to uniqueness and utilitarian utopia. Build it and they will come... in their pants and panties.
Respectfully,
Elliott Marshall, A.S., RPR
 

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That project is definitely a go. I have been an RX7 driver and a frequent visitor to RX7.com for the past three years. The new rotary engines are gonna be kick ass engines.. never under estimate those things for efficiency! My old 86 RX7 was factory 146hp. Now these things are coming 200+, non aspirated mind you! This car will defintely be a player. Rotaries will have a crazy aftermarket for it. Not to mention if you port the engine or slap on a turbo and a free flow intake & exhaust. You could be looking at 400hp easy? not bad for an under $30,000 ride. At least Lexus has going for it the fact that our IS is the FIRST of a breed of cutting edge looks performance sedans to hit the market and kill this corny SUV craze. The IS will rule supreme in aesthetics and looks for a while, or at least until the other Jap companies release their 2003 models. The Euros seems to be stuck. Audi's new A4 looks weird, like a buggy and mini A6 on steriods. and BMW just changed the shape of their E cars. I dont think their due for a facelift for another 3yrs? Oh well... thats just my 2cents.
 

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What the heck is a rotary engine, and how is it different from the engines in say an Acura or a Lexus or any other domestic car?

Excuse my naiveness, but I'm not that knowledgeable about engines and stuff, I just like looking at nice cars and umm..beautiful women
 

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Mazda is the only company making the rotary engine for automobiles right now. It is a different approach to 4 cycle internal combusion engine operation. Check this site to learn more:
http://www.monito.com/wankel/wankel.html


The new side port rotary engine is designed only for N/A. Some sort of port overlap issue prevents them from turbocharging the new motor.
 

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Originally posted by IS300Purformance:
What the heck is a rotary engine, and how is it different from the engines in say an Acura or a Lexus or any other domestic car?

Excuse my naiveness, but I'm not that knowledgeable about engines and stuff, I just like looking at nice cars and umm..beautiful women
Wankel designed it and it was first put into a German NSU... you probably weren't even born then. It is the most efficient and most powerful engine design to date. Instead of pistons pumping up and down, hitting on a camshaft then cranker and driveshaf and then translating that power to the transmission, the rotary engine has circular motion, a three-pronged circular/triangular piston that has its intake, combustion and exhaust phases keeping the circular motion going.
It used to be that the seals that the prongs came into contact with would degenerate and you'd be burning oil as a result, but research, new materials and nuances in design have all but taken care of those problems.
To give you an example, if I'm not mistaken the last RX model put out 255hp with an engine that I don't think was more than 2 litres. I am surprised that other companies have not used the Wankel Rotary, but I guess Mazda may own the patents. In my mind, the rotary is king in horsepower per cubic inch and has the best balance of all configurations. I hope it comes with 276hp and looks like the proto... if it does, I bequeath the Emerald to my daughter.
Respectfully,
Elliott Marshall, A.S., RPR
 

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Corrections to Emeralds post:

1> Calling it the "most efficient" and "most powerful" engine design to date seems to be a stretch. I would only claim the following:
...1a> It has fewer total parts than a comparable piston engine.
...1b> It runs VERY smoothly for an engine that bascially has only two combustion chambers.
2> The old oil burning problem was due to weak "side seal springs" that didn't have anything to do with the "apex seals".
3> They don't use the term "piston" in the rotary engine. The "3 pronged thing" is called a "rotor".
4> The rotors spin in an elliptical/oval motion rather than a circular motion. Sort of like a wobbly figure 8.
5> Mazda doesn't own the patents. They license the rights to produce and sell the design. Many other big car companies (like GM for instance) bought licenses but decided not to produce any rotaries. There was a prototype rotary Corvette, and a very low volume rotary Vega.
6> Yeah the 3rd generation Rx7 produced 255hp (for the USA), and was considered a 1.3 liter engine. Since the rotary engine is a different design the displacement is not really a fair comparision. In racing the Mazda rotaries typically had their displacement doubled to determine what category they fit in. For instance, a typical Mazda 13B (Rx7) rotary engine would be classified as a 2.6liter engine for many race events. I would argue that the 3rd generation Rx7 has the power, smoothness, and fuel consumption of a 2.6liter twin turbo V6. A fair piston equivalient might be the Audi 2.7l Twin Turbo 250hp v6 engine found in the Audi S4.

I would love to see Mazda bring the rotary back to the USA.

(p.s. I have owned Rx7s, and many Rx4s over the years).




[This message has been edited by TEG (edited August 30, 2000).]
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Please help me understand this....

If there's sooo many pluses with rotary engines then why hasn't this caught on with other automakers? I've only heard of Mazda coming out eith rotary engines and never anyone else.
 

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Teg,
That's why you're the moderator. Never really owned a rotary and was trying to explain in laymans terms the features of this engine and a bit of history.
You are right on point, as usual,
in each of your corrections. I still do feel this is a great engine, borne out by your ownership of a few models in the past, and I do see a good future for it. Thanks for making me whole. Your knowledgeable input is always appreciated and does justice to the caliber of information passed on this site.
Respectfully,
Elliott Marshall, A.S., RPR
 

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Why hasn't the rotary engine taken over?

Well a few reasons:

#1: It costs alot of money for car companies to "retool" and make a different kind of engine.
#2: It costs alot of money to retrain mechanics to deal with a different system.

(so the rotary would need to have some major benefits to unseat the "tried and true" piston engine)

#3: Mazda has jumped through alot of hoops to get the Rotary to be almost as fuel efficient as a comparable piston engine. There is just more contact area between the apex seals and side housings (in a rotary) than the contact between piston rings and cylinder bores... So - when fuel efficiency is a big concern, the rotary has trouble keeping up.
#4: Some customers would not buy a rotary vehicle because they heard of reliability or oil burning issues (which are pretty much all solved these days), or they are just afraid of something that is different.

Mazda has made ALOT of Rx7s and still sells them outside of the USA, so there are millions of those nice rotary engines out there.


Trivia: Mazda makes the rotary engines in Hiroshima, Japan.
 

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The last generation RX7 (NSX fighter) wasn't a total success in what they claimed on the 0-60 and the top end.....From what I understood, the NSX smoked the RX7 in both cases, especially from 100 MPH and onward with flying colors.....

Why would that be the case???
 

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As far as i understand, the biggest adventage of a rotary engine is its light weight. very suitable for sports car.
 
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