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Discussion Starter #1
ive noticed that many of us have fallen prey to 'correcting-oversteer and end up overcorrecting wipe outs' (dunno the correct terminology)

Any experienced drivers want to chime in and give out good advice?

Ive learned that a driver should always drive with two hands and and when turning fast on a curve, they should try to keep the hands in the same position for optimal control
 

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i wouldn't keep my hands in the same position on the steering wheel...you'll end up crossing your arms on those sharp turns...keep a loose grip and guide the wheel with your fingertips trying to keep your hands below 3,9 o'clock...
 

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Ya you're not suppose to jerk the wheel the other way like I did...I just paniced I guess :cry: . Im pretty sure you steer into the slide...
 

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practice.

If you can go to some kind of driving school or track event like an auto-x, you can practice pushing the car to (and beyond) it's limits. You'll be able to get a feel for when the car is reaching it's limits and then you can practice correcting it. Since the IS' suspension is tuned to understeer in stock form, I'm assuming that most losses of control are caused by throttle induced overster when accelerating too hard off a turn. IF that is the case you want to steer into the skid and ease off the throttle.

At the lexus performance driving school i went to, they taught us basically you always want to keep your hands as close to 9 and 3 on the wheel as possible. You basically want to constantly be sliding your hands as you turn because you dont' want to end up crossing your arms. If you are maknig a hard right turn, your left arm will come up top and your right arm will go down. At some point you basically want to slide your hands back closer to 9 and 3 to continue making the turn.
 

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By oversteer, do you mean the extreme condition where your rear wheels slide out, into a skid?

If that's the case you steer in the direction that the rear wheels are skidding. Also get out of the throttle at a point that lets the rear wheels get traction. You can actually steer the car with the throttle by inducing and stopping skids under some conditions.

Give it a little steering in that direction and if it doesn't correct, give it a little more. It becomes a natural reflex after awhile. Those of us the grew up driving rear wheel drive cars in the snow, learned that pretty fast. Because of that, I never felt really comfortable in front wheel drive cars under slippery conditons.

OTOH if you want to do donuts, just get on a slick surface and gas it while steering away from the rear wheel skid. That way you can just whip that dude around as many times as you care to.

If you want to practice go on a sandy parking lot that has some harder surface underneath the sand. You can safely exaggerate skid conditions there at low speeds.
 

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its called practice...

thats why going to auto-crosses and/or driving days are so important. The more you do it, the easier it is to correct....
 

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All the above are pretty much right on...

To, "avoid oversteer" just drive SLOWLY or use the SNOW button ALL THE TIME :lol: you'll be just fine....


but you don't really want to always AVOID oversteer... oversteer/slides just happen sometimes when you are driving HARD & you always COUNTERSTEER to catch the slide.....oversteer/slides can be FUN if managed properly...

Remember the trac control usually helps keep you in line by cutting the power if you are into a power induced oversteer situation, & it can help keep the car under you... without TC... if the car gets away under power it's all you baby bringing it back in line.... :D

personally i always disable the TC when i drive... esp in the canyons..... :crazy:

PRACTICE is the best solution... you MUST develop a feel for what the car is doing under you thru yer ass... that part of the body has the most contact with the car thru the seat......you CAN feel EVERYTHING the car is doing under you with a finely calibrated asscrack!! :eek: :lol:

it's true.... the rest is just reflexes & knowing naturally what to do when it begins to slide...you should not even have to think about it...


I tend to correct TOO fast & stop little slides WAY before they get threatening... I need to learn to actually SLOW down my reactions a bit so i can MANAGE the slide better rather than just catching it so fast.. i like to slide... just under control please... That is a very fine line between a fun slide under control & a lost slide out of control & taking you off the road...

I am a bit sketchy still from the days driving my old Grey Market '81 BMW/Alpina C1 (Euro spec 323 shell w/2.5 liter motor & headers intake etc etc.. :eek: ) that freaking car was SO light & had about 210 hp from the 2.5 litre inline 6 that it would spinout on me pretty easily if i was not careful... one or two bumps into the curb w the front end, & the cost of realignment or replacing a steering rod was all it took to make me a bit cautious these days... fixing my bent IS300 will be WAY more pricey than fixing the old '81 323 Beemer

back in the day, [early 80's] I used to run mulholland/topanga/Malibu/Las Virgines at 1 am & on to avoid traffic & cops etc.. thats where & when i learned how to drive...)

Take care, be smart, practice & approach your limits cautiously... you will learn... & you too will soon be disabling the TC whenever you drive hard... it is fun!!!



edgy
 

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don't practice this stuff on the street - go to a wet parking lot, or take a BMW skills class - all the local chapters have them and are open to all cars, even non-members sometime. Cost about $50 and are serious fun - you'll spend an hour on a wet skidpad with an instructor drifting your car.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
ckolsen said:
don't practice this stuff on the street - go to a wet parking lot, or take a BMW skills class - all the local chapters have them and are open to all cars, even non-members sometime. Cost about $50 and are serious fun - you'll spend an hour on a wet skidpad with an instructor drifting your car.
sounds like fun :p
 

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I will echo some of the good advice.

First, I am no expert but will rely on the good advice learned from experienced track people/instructors.

First, it depends on the car and the situation really, so it is different for you and your car and the environment.

It you are tooling along on the wet roads and the rear end starts to get out from you, or even on the track for that matter, usually the best advice is that you aren't going to save it unless you are extremely skilled and have tested this.

With that said, ""both feet in" is good. That means, if you have a manual, "clutch in and brake to the floor"....ABS the thing. It is probably going to go around on you anyway. Rule 1, get the car stopped immediately. This is race driving rule #1 when it starts to go real wrong. Don't start playing hero and try to counter correct, get the car stopped and hope nothing bad happens.

The other situations may be different. If you are at the track and are purposely oversteering, it really depends on your car. I believe the IS was designed a tad butt heavy to induce oversteer. In general, most auto makers want understeer because the natural reaction by humans during the understeer correction is the right one, lift throttle, hit the brakes and straighten the wheel out. Automakers don't want oversteer and spins, people's natural reaction is the over correction you speak of which leads to spin out for sure.

But, if you are at the track and purposely oversteering with throttle input, it depends on the natural tendency of your car what to do when it begins to oversteer too much.

Most cars during oversteer, if you lift off the throttle, it actually reduces downforce on the tires due to the weight transfer and the tail gets light, which would require you to counter steer and actually add power slightly to get traction to the tires again. But, your natural tendency is to lift power and counter steer, leading to spin out. That would be a good time to do the "two feet in" and pray. I saw a Camaro at Moroso that was already tail light under power do this on turn 9, he spun, all the way around, hit the grass, whoosh...he ended up 180 degree against the INSIDE wall with left rear corner panel damage. It was driveable, but definitely ruined his day, and ego. The instructors asked him to give some insight how it felt. His comment, "It happened real fast."

On the other hand, some cars when it is oversteering, you simply lift the throttle and the butt comes right back in, you can feather the car around the corner a the track and "drift" along with steering input.

Sooo....with all of that said and contradictions....the best suggestion, s Sign up for a school that will allow you to bring your car, not someone elses, you need to know how your car is going to react, not some BMW, where they do skidpad driving or s-curve maneuvers while wet so you know how your car reacts, and what the appropriate action is for your car under those circumstances. This is done under supervision and you can purposely spin, understeer, understeer perform throttle inputs etc...in a controlled environment. Then, you will be better prepared to deal with these conditions. And, it is alot of fun.
 

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:D first find one very frozen lake :D and PRACTICE trac off, ect on


*** make sure lake is thick enough :eek: ****

and follow the directios posted above :wink:
 
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