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MSM MT IS300 said:
MSM MT IS300 said:
thanks w2.

any advantage to one for a non f/i car? what if i had n20? or super/turbocharger...

and what is the deal with their page of sparkplugs?? what heat range is our car?

http://hksusa.com/products/?id=730
anyone?

also, how does this compare with the plasma booster or msd's ignition equipment?

With the MSD you can also control timing and has 2-step. Plus... it's cheaper..
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
hchan said:
MSM MT IS300 said:
MSM MT IS300 said:
thanks w2.

any advantage to one for a non f/i car? what if i had n20? or super/turbocharger...

and what is the deal with their page of sparkplugs?? what heat range is our car?

http://hksusa.com/products/?id=730
anyone?

also, how does this compare with the plasma booster or msd's ignition equipment?

With the MSD you can also control timing and has 2-step. Plus... it's cheaper..
a 2 step? and what do you mean control timing? is that a big deal if a cam gear has already been installed/tuned?
 

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If you are wanting a higher voltage spark to give you more power...sorry it won't give you an ounce more power. The only reason you would need an upgraded ignition system is if you have modded your engine a lot from stock and the OEM ignition system cannot provide a strong enough spark for the amount of turbulance in the combustion chamber from the modifications. So if you had any type of forced induction or even high lift long duration cams and an optimized intake and exhaust system then an ignition upgrade should be in order.

But having an adjustable rev limiter is nice...but then you could just buy a rev limiter product instead of a whole ignition setup.
 

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revhard said:
What about the plasma booster? Is there any advantage in having one with F/I?
It depends on how much psi you plan on running or how big of a nitrous shot you are using. I don't know much about the IS igniton system but I am sure it's designed to handle quite a bit more than what the stock setup is.

Most people do the igniton upgrade because it looks "flashy", but really it's a waste of cash in 99% of applications. If I were you I'd look to other forms of getting power.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
this is an e-mail from msd when i asked what they could do for our car:


"Our documentation shows that you have a distributorless ignition system using three dual ended tower coils. For your application we would recommend using the DIS 4, P/N 6215 and 2, 8912 tach/fuel adapters.

With the MSD CD ignition you will experience better fuel combustion which will translate into better fuel economy and better 'pep' to the engine. These gains may not be apparent when you first install the ignition, but if you remove it or bypass it after running it for two/three months you should see a big difference and want to 'hook' the MSD back up to your application.

Thanks,

MSD Tech"
 

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plasma booster.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

MSD DIS-4 set up well get's my vote. On a side note when I was out in Cali they had those HKS DLI's laying on the shelf in Autobach's.
 

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MSM MT IS300 said:
this is an e-mail from msd when i asked what they could do for our car:


"Our documentation shows that you have a distributorless ignition system using three dual ended tower coils. For your application we would recommend using the DIS 4, P/N 6215 and 2, 8912 tach/fuel adapters.

With the MSD CD ignition you will experience better fuel combustion which will translate into better fuel economy and better 'pep' to the engine. These gains may not be apparent when you first install the ignition, but if you remove it or bypass it after running it for two/three months you should see a big difference and want to 'hook' the MSD back up to your application.

Thanks,

MSD Tech"
Um...remember they want to sell their product to you... The OEM system is designed to combust the fuel at any rpm designated from the factory and at any condition (air temp, ignition timing, cam timing, water temp and so on) within reason. Aftermarket ignition systems won't cause any power gains or "fully burn" all the air/fuel mixture more than the OEM system.

Hype doesn't give your car any power, facts do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Conrad_Turbo said:
MSM MT IS300 said:
this is an e-mail from msd when i asked what they could do for our car:


"Our documentation shows that you have a distributorless ignition system using three dual ended tower coils. For your application we would recommend using the DIS 4, P/N 6215 and 2, 8912 tach/fuel adapters.

With the MSD CD ignition you will experience better fuel combustion which will translate into better fuel economy and better 'pep' to the engine. These gains may not be apparent when you first install the ignition, but if you remove it or bypass it after running it for two/three months you should see a big difference and want to 'hook' the MSD back up to your application.

Thanks,

MSD Tech"
Um...remember they want to sell their product to you... The OEM system is designed to combust the fuel at any rpm designated from the factory and at any condition (air temp, ignition timing, cam timing, water temp and so on) within reason. Aftermarket ignition systems won't cause any power gains or "fully burn" all the air/fuel mixture more than the OEM system.

Hype doesn't give your car any power, facts do.
well now wait a minute: the stock exhaust removed spent air from my engine "within reason" and yet hks promised me power gains with their product. and the dyno proves them right. my stock air box and ecu worked properly, and yet srt's intake w/ piggy back ecu mod offers a proven increase in power. lexus told me my 5 speed included tighter suspension coils than the auto for road hugging performance, but what i wouldn't give for a set of coilovers.

the fact is car manufacturers are concerned with priorities that may not match ours as the tuner crowd. comfy suspension (stock vs. aftermarket ride height). durability (stock vs. the higher maintenance choice of f/i). carb legality (stock vs. headers or mid-pipe).

never assume because lexus did it, it may be best. it is entirely possible that, as with many other mods for this car, an aftermarket option may be better suited towards performance gains...

yes all parts on my stock car work. but not necessarily as well as aftermarket options... and although these companys do hype their products, why do most scca and pca race teams choose to utilize an aftermarket ignition system? there may be no clear advantage, but don't always assume manufacturer claims = hype... (not all manufactuerers are xerd).
 

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If your OEM system has enough "oomph" to ignite the fuel that is all it needs. If say you could harness the power of lightning and use that to ignite your air/fuel mixture...you'd make the EXACT same Hp.

If you want an unbiased opinion that is 100% accurate and very boring and dry, read this http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1925/naca-report-187/naca-report-187.pdf

I can put down $100 you won't read the whole thing...it's that cut and dry. But the facts are 100% there, if there is enough energy to ignite the air/fuel, then thats all you need. This is NASA research as well...not some company that is trying to sell small components for a car and make money off people.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
read it. not as bad as you said, but then i was a soc major--try 1000 pages of marx, weber, or kant.

at any rate, several things:
-they used a 7% fuel to air mixture--is that comparable to our mixture? and their fuel source, in the gas based test, was from a paper soaked in gas, incapsulated, pressurized, heated, and sparked. how simular is this to our cars? what was the octaine level of their gas, and was the pressure as great as in the cylinder? could there be any differance in the way a car vaporizes and dist. gas?
-their conclusions are a little weak on the gasoline test--in fact they didn't ever really do a weak versus strong spark test. in reading the report or by simply scanning the chart, you'll notice they only compared a normal spark to a condenser one. not normal to weak to strong.
-and finally, the purpose of the nasa research was to clarify a differance if any in the speed at which fuel ignites. this is a non-sequitor. msd and all other ignition companies only claim better fuel burnage not faster rate of burnage. and by better they mean more complete. in fact in the report, nasa found that the rate of gas base burned (incapsulated & pressurized) slowed as the ignition spread--something they couldn't explain but suggested occured as the flame's momentum created greated internal pressure. (more like a rising cylinder?) they also admited that the weaker spark could not visibly ignite the fuel within ion periphery of the actual spark itself, the flame wasn't photographical until just beyond the actual ignition point. agian making me wonder about the weaker spark's impact on not speed of burn but completeness of burn.

fyi, i'm not buying one anymore. the $ to hp ratio sucks, gonna go n20 now anyway. but there still may be an arguement about the usefulness of a spark enhancer (emprically, if $ was no object)

edit: how the hell did you come up with a nasa report so fast? you have that shit under favorites or what?
 

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Yep I have quite a few very interesting articles that I keep on hand.

But I have to cut this short as I am at work...but basically once you get the fuel ignited then that is all that is needed for combustion, a "hotter" spark won't allow it to combust any faster. The only way for a more complete burn is to advance the timing thus giving the air/fuel mixture time to burn longer.

Well gtg I've gotta work another 13 hour day. Ack.
 

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[ there may be no clear advantage, but don't always assume manufacturer claims = hype... (not all manufactuerers are xerd).[/quote]

--Whoa... damn, almost missed the whip like action against. xturd..
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
rllinghardis300 said:
[ there may be no clear advantage, but don't always assume manufacturer claims = hype... (not all manufactuerers are xerd).
--Whoa... damn, almost missed the whip like action against. xturd..[/quote]

yeah, long thread. surprised you took the time to read it all...
 
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