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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
Nice update with the pics.. looking at the concept more, I was curious do you think the stock motor assembly will have enough torque to pull another throttle plate with its own spring? I mean, the place where you have the cam attached is where the throttle plate used to sit, and it does not have an additional spring there stock. So to pull on another cable throttle with its own spring might put extra strain on the motor / clutch?
That is a good point, I believe it should be fine, but you are right about spring, the TB whatever is being used as the slave TB must have a spring of its own as well, I think the motor is plenty strong, if it lasted well for most people who did the crazy mod by forcing the 45 degree of there Throttle Position Sensor (TPS), which pretty much made the motor fight against the users foot all the time.

Also I have messed with the whole system and springs are pretty strong even in normal working conditions, so under normal conditions the motor has to move the butterfly constantly with all those spring forces acting continuously.

This point also brings me to the search of throttle cables, I guess it would be very important to minimize any restriction or resistance so that the whole OEM system can operate properly.

The biggest issue will come to ITB setups, were proper spring loading will come into play
 

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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
Slave Throttle cable - search

So I am looking at linking cable or as it should be called slave throttle cable.

I do not want to make my own throttle cable so I am looking for OEM or OEM like replacement parts that would fit the bill.

I started to look at quad and dirt bikes. I noticed that the front brake would be good length.

I purchased one Motion Pro 02-0167 Black Vinyl Front Brake Cable : Amazon.com : Automotive

not bad for under $15

Thats another point, the price needs to be low probably under $20

The cable must be exposed enough and the ends need to be barrel type.

Needless to say, that cable does not have enough travel, maybe 2 to 3 inches? Biggest issue was its too stiff!! the dia on the cable is way too much for throttle body cable.

SO that one is being returned.


I decided that I need to take a different route. I thought that a clutch or other cars throttle cable would be better option, but the length has to be much shorter than typical throttle cable.

So i search all ebay for cruise control cables! I remembered looking at ES300 and it had relatively short cable and also would fit the bill on the travel (for each end) of the cable, as this one is used on throttle cams on both ends!

example I found was OEM ES300 94
Lexus ES 300 ES300 Cruise Control Cable 94 1994 | eBay

I will give this a try now.



I need help from everyone for other alternatives, preferably a cable that can be ordered from aftermarket place the meets or exceeds OEM quality.

So far few other makes seem like they would work, please add any other finds.

Civic 92-95 SI hatchback
92 95 Civic SI Hatchback 37 Cruise Control Cable | eBay


92-96 Prelude
93 92 96 Prelude 142 Cruise Control Cable | eBay

Acura Integra 94 01
94 01 Acura Integra GSR 138 Cruise Control Cable | eBay

Honda 2004 2005 S2000
2004 2005 Honda S2000 AP2 Factory Cruise Control Throttle Cable F22C | eBay


Does not have to be car cable, but one that is thin as our stock throttle cable or a little thinner is fine
 

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Discussion Starter #23 (Edited)
Machined the main housing! and test fit!

I updated the main thread with details on the success of the main housing on the first run!

You see the first pic shows the part in the machine still.

next pic is me test fitting the motor on it! Fits perfect, almost too tight, but thats a small change can be done.

Next came the plastic housing over the motor and the outside profile.

Then I finally went and assembled the OEM internals into the housing.

Other two pics show again the mounting of the motor and plastic cover along with the senor, all fits and works!

The video shows me moving the butterfly shaft. The shaft that will have the new slave CAM for the cable that goes to slave DBC TB

Next up when I get some time is the 2ndary housing and the bracket!

Here are few more pics







YouTube video:
Video of the main housing test with the gearing and servo motor attached

Sorry that the video looks all wavy, I was using googles auto shake remover, and at least you can see it without much shaking, though its all wavy and giggly looking LOL
 

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Looks like a safer solution to having a 2nd TB flapping around under your seat! :cool:

Now that you have the mock unit made up and know all the parts and cycle times to machine, do you have any further indications on cost?:)
 

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Looks like a safer solution to having a 2nd TB flapping around under your seat! :cool:

Now that you have the mock unit made up and know all the parts and cycle times to machine, do you have any further indications on cost?:)
Before this gets any more out of hand , there is no pricing or selling on this site unless OP wants to become a vendor ! Please clean up the threads of all this pricing and kit talk with intentions to sell etc ...
Op you have any questions feel free to PM me.

Thxs
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
Before this gets any more out of hand , there is no pricing or selling on this site unless OP wants to become a vendor ! Please clean up the threads of all this pricing and kit talk with intentions to sell etc ...
Op you have any questions feel free to PM me.

Thxs
Thank you, PM sent :)

Looks like a safer solution to having a 2nd TB flapping around under your seat! :cool:

Now that you have the mock unit made up and know all the parts and cycle times to machine, do you have any further indications on cost?:)
I have not gone through that mainly because this is my project that I am sharing with everyone. As Bezik777 said, a vendor required for any kind of pricing stuff. With that said, I only briefly mentioned this projected to few vendors.

Once I have completed the project I will talk with vendors and see. The pricing will be all up to the vendor and I will not make any wild guesses because that can screw things up.
 

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Sorry my bad it seems, the no pricing/selling/vendor/whatever is news to a newbie like me ;)

All good, bring on the results!
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Sorry my bad it seems, the no pricing/selling/vendor/whatever is news to a newbie like me ;)

All good, bring on the results!
Trust me, I am learning things too ;)

I finally got a nicer rougher tool and ran a 2nd one, I was hoping for much faster cycle time, but this part doesnt look that complex at first, but the configuration/profile really screws you over with such small clearance and such deep pocket, of course I have modified my model once again and it machined nicely.

I will revisit the main housing model once I finish the whole project, stair at it for a while and hope some ideas to remove or add few things will come ;)

Been busy, this week and weekend looks packed already and I have yet to do the other ops on this main housing.
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
2ndary housing machined

Made some progress this week.
Had some time so I finished programming the 2nd housing :) and got sometime to machine it!

things are moving along nicely so far

pictures below:



 

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Looking good!

Just a question; why are you doing the cable side as well? You will need the TPS connected to the actual butterfly and cable to get the correct reading of the actual butterfly. Or am I missing something?

I hope you don't take my questions the wrong way, I'm not trying to be picky. I'm a mechanical engineer as well so it's an interest seeing how things work, most of my day is troubleshooting through design issues. ;)



Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Looking good!

Just a question; why are you doing the cable side as well? You will need the TPS connected to the actual butterfly and cable to get the correct reading of the actual butterfly. Or am I missing something?

I hope you don't take my questions the wrong way, I'm not trying to be picky. I'm a mechanical engineer as well so it's an interest seeing how things work, most of my day is troubleshooting through design issues. ;)



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Its ok to ask questions, all I know as it makes perfect sense in my head and the model makes sense to me, but I have to account that I may have not verbalized everything clearly enough for others :)

With that said. The whole idea is or should be simple, to remove the butterfly, and replace a cable CAM that drives another throttle body.

It sounds simple but that requires to replicate the OEM housings to the degree that the main components (sensors, servo motor) and gears fit, and the shaft accepts a new cable CAM instead of the OEM butterfly.

Thats what the model shows or tries to show. The red component is the cable CAM that will connect to another CAM on what I call slave throttle body (simple DBC throttle body)

On my main post you can read all the other advantages and what I can do, for example I can change the cable CAM from a simple circular pattern to any design that I wish to advance or retard the speed of throttle.

This is why I was saying that later on in testing we will see how far we can push this, of course this would require to have a tuner or at least a wide band to watch the A/F. Because we can physically mess around with our 2ndary throttle body, yet the ECU will see the unchanged movements as the change takes place on the cable CAM and NOT on any of the OEM components.

Hopefully I did not confuse things anymore, with the more in depth stuff :p
 

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Discussion Starter #33
You should just mill up a big 90 or 80mm pnp throttle body. Would be way more marketable and clean looking.
This already exists and has been covered in depth with the 80mm DIY, you get the other TB's that plugin with our senors, but require extending the wires, cables brackets, custom mod of y-pipe etc...


To me personally this will not be cost effective and will probably be too complex and possibly exceed the requirements capability of the machines/equipment that I have access to.

Just take a look at the OEM TB housing now try to imagine to have to machine everything, the cast is much more economical, imagine trying to do that from solid block of aluminum, then trying to increase the overall diameter to 80 or 90mm

It might be possible to break down the cast design into smaller segments like I have done so with my design, but then you risk the issues with leak/sealing and with true position issues (things lining up perfectly)
 

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Hopefully I did not confuse things anymore, with the more in depth stuff :p
Ahh, i see what you are trying to do!

Personally i would have thought playing around with cam's to change the A/F mix wouldn't be the best way to do it. It would be difficult to time it accurately enough to change the butterfly to match the fuel, but interesting to see what affect you can produce all the same ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Ahh, i see what you are trying to do!

Personally i would have thought playing around with cam's to change the A/F mix wouldn't be the best way to do it. It would be difficult to time it accurately enough to change the butterfly to match the fuel, but interesting to see what affect you can produce all the same ;)
yes it might be difficult to do so, but I also do not have to ;)

If anything I can make matching CAM's that progress differently from different degrees, I am not 100% sure how it would impact A/F if its done say at only small % range for more response?

I believe with a tune it should be fine, I mean this would not work with stock ECU only anyway. Going bigger or even changing intake characteristics drastically will require to have a piggy back or stand alone ECU

All that I am getting at right now is that there are a lot of possibilities :p
 

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any new updates yet?
 

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Discussion Starter #37 (Edited)

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Definitely keeping my eye on this. Have been since before I was a member
 

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Discussion Starter #39 (Edited)
Detailed pics of near completion of the unit

Ok, here is the update, main and 2ndary housing have been finished along with the joining bracket. Slave CAM has been mostly done few more ops left. The shaft has been split, still needs testing for securing it in the CAM. Few other small things left to do but here are the pics so far.





The 2 pics below roughly shows you how this unit stacks up against the OEM TB.





Here is my original idea of placing the unit in the IS300 engine bay. As you can see I am planning to have it sink into the crack were the spark plugs go with the servo motor end going to the firewall. Of course once its in its place it will move a lot more probably 2-3 inches in.



The next position would be to flip it right to the left, and place it, but this could require to extend the throttle body cable from the original position.
The OEM CAM has 2 areas for the cable and L and R and this works nicely, letting you flip the unit and still have the cable function right.



Another idea is to move it even more to the left, were it hangs off to the left allowing the servo motor part that sticks out to fit next to the valve cover



So there you have it, things are going well.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Finished shaft and CAM!

So I finished up the CAM and shaft, here is a pic of the used ES300 cruise control cable through the slave CAM, our OEM ones are about same spec.



Next up will be brackets for both the OEM throttle cable and the slave CAM cable.

Once that is done. I will be moving the unit into the engine bay, taking off my OEM's throttle body sensors and motor, pretty much turning my OEM TB into DBC throttle body for testing purposes.

I figured its best to test with OEM and how car is running now then trying to jump onto a new TB and possibly needing a tune. This would bring too many variables. Once the car has been tested and runs good with this unit using the OEM TB as a slave DBC TB then im all good for whatever TB I want :)
 
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