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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
turbo97se Here are my ratings:
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1 Motec
2 AEM
3 Haltech
4 Autronic
5 TEC3
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Here is my reasoning:
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1. Motec is extremely reliable engine management system. It is also extremely flexible being able to control just about anything you would like it to. Set up is fairly straight foward for different applications. Very flexible for stock sensor set up. Flexibility to select any sensor you like for cam, crank, air temp, MAP etc .. DBW and active closed feedback VVTi are also supposed to be available. Good documentation and more intuitive set up than many ems. Disadvantage as everyone has so rightly pointed out is serious $$$.
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Highs: Very reliable, fully programmable engine management system
Lows: $$$ $$$ $$$ Bang for buck is moderate.
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2. AEM - again extremely flexible can control everything except DBW. Easy to tune with this, nightmare to setup for custom appllications for obtaining sync, but it can be done. I even managed to get this synced on my Maxima with its weird a$$ cam and crank signals. There are hundreds of setup pages you can go through to set this thing up! It is very complex to set this thing up. Once you have it dialed in, that's IT! it runs perfect! Seems to start up first time every time. You can control 1000 cc injectors and idle like stock! <p>

Highs: Features galore - boost control, EGT and O2 feedback even traction control! relatively inexpensive compared to others. Easy tune Easy setup for plug and play applications. If set up right, you can use an old laptop and display all gauges on an LCD screen like HKS camp.
Lows: Complex setup for custom apps only. Some people have reported reliability issues. Cheaped out on some stuff like high/low impedance injector control.
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3. Haltech(E6X ... standalones), I am not so familiar with. User interface seems to be good. Set up for Sync is extremely well doumented, should be straightforward setting this guy up.
Highs: relatively simple set up, decent features.
Lows: Appears not to be as flexible as above for selecting sensors.
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4. Autronic. Again not a huge amount of experience with Autronic. here is what I know:
Highs: documentation is quite good
Lows: Different firmware required for different setups. You have to go through several tables to decide on what kind of functions you will need.
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5. TEC3
Highs: simple tuning, very reliable
Lows: Most inflexible engine management system I have used. Specific sensors need to be used unless you work closely with Electromotive for custom firmware. Few features - no antilag, no fuel injector advance, no seperate NOS fuel map and ignition tables, archaic technology, very $$$ for what it offers.
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I may have given too much detail here for the everyday driver/enthusiast. All that most people care about is -
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Will it control my engine so it does not blow up?
Will it give me the best power output?
Will it start in the morning when it is -20 degrees out?
Will it give me stock-like driveability?
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Any one of these emses can probably achieve these if set up correctly.
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As far as sophistication goes, (not knowing a huge amount about Haltec) there is a big gap between top two and the rest. Sure you can get great peak power by just controlling injectors for example, but by controlling, injection point, ignition timing etc you optimize your power under the curve not just peak. This is not a shot at people using the Haltech injector controller, it works for what you want it to do. No NOS maps? You have to download different maps each time you drive with or without NOS or set up maps controlled by boost controller so you don't blow up.
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Some people might give me the 80/20 arguement - You get 80% of what you need (or whatever percentage you think) by using any of the engine management systems. Well, I want it all!
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* Special thanks to turbo97se for the great write up
 

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Discussion Starter #2
tsopranoMB *****DISCLAIMER*****
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ALL THE FOLLOWING IS UNBIASED INFORMATION THAT I READ AND DECIDED TO COMPILE AND POST ON HERE FOR EVERYONE TO GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF ALL THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS in the Motec VS Haltech VS TEC 3 Debate.....
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I AM BY NO MEANS AN EXPERT OR NOR DO I PRETEND TO BE...yeah I have a Haltech E6X in my car, and NO I have not changed any settings on it before because I am not qualified to, nor should anyone be unless they are specially trained and certified to do so....meaning, NOBODY on here who has contributed is by an means an expert in tuning....lets leave that for the experts, shall we?
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to expand upon what our friend turbo97se had posted.......
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the Motec certainly does more then all the other standalones....has more sensor inputs and outputs, as well as has:<P>

Sequential Fuel Injection - Sequential means that each injector for each cylinder is triggered only one time during the engine's cycle. Typically the injector is triggered only during the intake stroke. True sequential injection requires the ECU to know not only where top dead center is, but also which half of the cycle the engine is on. TDC on a 4 stroke occurs 2 times during the cycle, once on compression and once on exhaust. MoTeC references all timing events that occurs within the ECU, to Top Dead Center Compression. This generally requires an input on the engine's camshaft to provide the ECU with a SYNC signal. Once the ECU is synched, injection timing can be optimized to provide the most efficient mixing of fuel and air into the cylinder. Control of injection timing can lead to increases in midrange torque while decreasing emissions and fuel consumption.
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as opposed to a Haltech E6X/K which is Batch Fire - Batch fire means that 2 or more injectors are triggered at the same time once every crankshaft revolution. If the ECU is synched with the engine's cycle, the injection timing can only be half optimized as fuel is injected both on the intake stroke and on the power stroke. Companion cylinders are paired in batch fire mode similar to wasted spark ignition modes. The advantage of batch firing is that the ECU needs only to know where TDC is. This means that a sync on the cam is not required. The disadvantage to batch firing is that the Injector Dead Time is doubled for the engine's cycle. This leads to a decrease in fuel flow and typically requires a larger, less efficient injector to be used to make up for the loss of flow.
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Fully Variable Camshaft Timing - MoTeC is proud to be the industry leader in the aftermarket for controlling engines with fully variable camshafts. We have several special modes written to allow full control of up to 4 fully variable camshafts per engine such as the Dual Vanos BMW V8 using our M800/880 series of Engine Management Systems. Special Ref/Sync modes were written to allow the tuner to use the stock trigger wheels and sensors. Camshaft timing can be independently adjusted for each cam in 1/2 degree increments based on RPM and Load. With full adjustment of camshaft opening and closing points, the engine's volumetric efficiency curve can be stretched providing optimum cylinder filling over a much wider range of RPM, increasing the average horsepower and ultimately making the car faster.
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Drive by Wire control - MoTeC is the first in the industry to adopt drive by wire throttle control using OE components. Many of the newer models of cars are equipped with electronic throttle control. MoTeC retains all of the standard redundant sensors that the factory uses for safety. In addition to very precise control of the throttle position, throttle by wire also incorporates idle speed control and traction control. MoTeC Drive By Wire is available for certain Bosch, Delphi and Nissan systems using our M800/880 series of Engine Management Systems and we are working on additional Drive By Wire systems on a daily basis. If you are interested, please call to discuss your system's requirements.
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FOR MORE INFORMATION ON WHAT MOTEC EMU's DO GO HERE:
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http://www.motec.com/products/ecu/tutorial.htm
http://www.motec.com/definitions.htm
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as far as HALTECH:

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http://www.k2rd.com/haltech/E6X.html
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The new Haltech E6X supercedes the E6K in the product line. In addition to all the great features of the E6K, the E6X include
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* Internal Ignition Toggle - Allows Full Sequential Injection with Waste-spark Ignition on 4cylinder dual coil engines (Eclipse, Miata, etc.)
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* RA8 Reluctor Adapters - The newest reluctors for magnetic trigger pickups which allows piggy-back splice between pickups and stock factory ECU, for such installations.
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* Motronic - Motronic pickups are fully compatiable on the E6X via menu selection without the need for special factory hardware installation.
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* New Software - Allows Dual Mapping triggered via VTEC or external switch, HighBoost support with Haltech's special MAP sensor, and additional trigger patterns.

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HALTECH E11

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The Haltech E11 ECU is an ECU capable of controlling sequential injection on 4,5,6,8 and 10 cylinder applications. With 14 channels capable of controlling injection and ignition duties, the E11 can support most modern engines with multi-coil ignition systems, as well as conventional distributor ignition systems.In addition to controlling fuel and spark, the E11 can control various auxiliary engine functions such as:
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* Stepper motor and BAC/IAC closed loop Idle Control
* Turbo wastegate control for boost control
* O2 sensor closed loop mixture control
* On board data logging (up to 200 samples per second)
* Variable spaced load and RPM 3D maps
* Numerous correction maps to ensure smooth drivability under varying operating conditionsHalwin Software
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The TEC³ Engine Control Unit


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The new TEC³ ECU incorporates the winning features of our previous TEC-2 system while adding an abundance of new features and a powerful new processing platform. Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI) control and patented digital Direct Ignition control is standard hardware for every TEC3. The anodized, laser-etched ECU with waterproof OEM style connectors and harness may be mounted under the hood or in the passenger compartment and will activate separate multi-coil DFU’s (Direct Fire Units) mounted adjacent to (or on) the engine.
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Standard features built in to the TEC³:
# PC programmable and configurable for 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, cyl. engines and Rotories with a 12 cyl.and 6 cyl dual plug option
# Operate in Open or Closed loop
# Run True Sequential, Phased Sequential or Simultaneous Injection with individual cylinder trim
# Configurable for TBI, MPI, TPI and individual throttle bodies
# Additional Injector Output Drivers built-in.. Run Low or High impedance injectors
# Full 150 mJ of Spark Energy directly to the plugs without misfire
# New Dual Rev Limiters with ‘Triple Smooth Technology’.. 1st step retards timing to a negative -12º degrees.. 2nd step cuts coil current in half.. 3rd step coil current and fuel are cut-off.. all three steps occurring within milliseconds!
# Waste Gate (Boost Control), Nitrous Control with up to 4 stage retard available
# Four Programmable GPO’s (General Purpose Outputs) to control or activate VTEC, Shift Lights, Water Pumps and Fans, A/C Compressor, Torque Converter and more.
# New Programmable Adjustable Electronic Tachometer Output
# Uses primarily GM type sensors
# Diagnostic monitoring with codes issued through Check Engine Light
# Easy to install bolt-on Trigger Wheel and Mag Sensor Kits available for many applications
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
RAVEN
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The M48 is our Engine Management System with the ability to provide sequential injection and individual cylinder fuel/ignition trims for up to 8 cylinder engines and is designed to provide you with the power and quality you need but at lower cost by letting you option in only the features you require. It is designed primarily for performance street cars & bikes but by choosing the optional features it is perfect for competition use.
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Our base system uses 3 Dimensional fuel and ignition mapping and ignition control to give you the ability to drive your ignition modules and set your spark timing to be at its absolute best at all points. Sequential ignition lets you fire the injectors at the optimum time in the engine cycle. Advanced tuning is an option which gives many extra features including traction control, the ability to configure the ECU to your existing sensors, etc. Another option is 512Kb of on board data logging to let you analyze the engine as it has been running. Configure the system to suit your needs and enable more options if they are required later.
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All M48 models have the accurate control necessary to meet legislated emissions requirements, including closed loop narrow band lambda control. The engine must, of course, be emissions capable.
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The M48 can use nearly all original equipment and aftermarket ignition triggers, modules and coils, by changing the setup in the ECU software, giving it unmatched flexibility. The M48 can be triggered by either a hall effect switch, a logic drive or a magnetic sensor, with various signal types and with intelligent signal filtering insuring proper signal to noise ratio at any crank speed. Electromagnetic interference can play havoc with electronic devices, and MoTeC takes extensive preventive measures to reject low impedance conducted interference and to shield from radiated interference.
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The heart of the M48 is a Motorola 32 bit microcontroller with a time co-processor, a choice which puts it at the leading edge of automotive control systems. Contained in a 132 pin surface mount package and consisting of over 420,000 transistors the M48 is built to internationally recognized quality control standards (ISO 9001). That the M48 reads its sensors 2400 times per second, and the entire control program is recalculated 200 times per second demonstrates its power. In personal computer terms the last PC to use a 16 bit processor was the '286' released in the early 1980's whereas 32 bit is still current technology. We were the first and to our knowledge the only people to have used this processor in this application.
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MoTeC's unique software programmable switch mode drivers can trigger any injector with up to 70% less power usage than other products, drawing less power from the electrical system and generating less heat inside the ECU. This is an important consideration when the Ignition and Fuel Injection System are run off of a common battery source especially in a "total loss" system with no alternator.
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Comprehensive diagnostics report on injector current usage and any wiring open/short circuit after each firing of the injector.
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There is a comprehensive group of computer software tools available for the M48, including
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Engine setup, tuning diagnostics and utilities.
Monitoring, data logging and analysis.
Utilities for loading new program code and enabling special features.
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This software has been designed with the emphasis on usability, enabling you to quickly optimize the setup for your vehicle.
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Other thoughtful M48 features include the use of programmable flash memory chip to store the control program. This means that there is no program chip or EPROM to change to upgrade the program. When a new program feature is offered you simply send the M48 the new code over the optional MoTeC connector cable and the latest features are available to you. Flash memory has also been included for the internal data logging, meaning that the recorded data will never be lost even if power to the ECU is removed. Flash storage also enables the M48 to retain information without needing internal batteries which have a finite service life.

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Microprocessor 32 Bit 33 MHz with time Co-processor
Quality Standard ISO 9001
Manufacturing Standard IPC-S-815-A Class 3 High Reliability
Warranty 1 year Parts and Labor
Burn In -50 to 70 degrees for 32 hours
ECU Control Software stored in updateable FLASH memory
High RFI Immunity
Low heat generation
Battery transient protection
Environmentally sealed electronics
Waterproof connector with gold plated contacts
Case size 150 x 100 x 36 mm (5.9 x 3.9 x 1.4 inches)
Weight 0.48 kg (17 oz)
Cylinders 1,2,3,4,5,6,8,10,12
Engines 2 stroke, 4 stroke, Rotary (1-4), Odd or Even fire
Maximum RPM > 15,000 RPM
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<b>Injection</b>
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8 group sequential
User programmable injector current 0.5-6 Amps peak
Battery Comp to suit any injector
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<b>Fuel Calibration</b>
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Accuracy 0.00001 seconds
All RPM & Load sites are user programmable
Main Table (3D) 40 RPM sites x 21 Load sites (840 points)
End of Injection (3D) 20 RPM sites x 11 Load sites
Overall Trim + 99%
Individual Cylinder Trim + 99%
Hi/Lo Injector Balance (3D) 20 RPM sites x 11 Load sites
Hi/Lo End of Injection (3D) 20 RPM sites x 11 Load sites
Engine Temperature and Air Temperature compensations
MAP compensation
Two Auxiliary compensations
Injector Dead Time composition
Accel Clamp, Decay and Sensitivity
Decel Clamp, Decay and Sensitivity
Cold Start
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<b>Ignition Outputs</b>
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Up to 2 Ignition Outputs
One output may drive up to 8 coils using the MoTeC Ignition Expander
Versatile Ignition Interface allows connection to most OEM ignition systems including: Nissan Multi Coil modules
GM EST DFI systems
Ford EDIS DFI systems
Mazda Rotary DFI modules
Many Others
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<b>Ignition Calibration</b>
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Accuracy 0.25 degrees
All RPM & Load sites are user programmable
Main Table (3D) 40 RPM sites x 21 Load sites (840 points)
Overall Trim + 99%
Individual Cylinder Trim + 99%
Rotary Split 20 RPM x 11 Load sites
Engine Temperature and Air Temperature compensations
MAP compensation
Two Auxiliary compensations
Dwell Time 20 RPM x 11 Battery sites
Odd fire engine capability Each Top Dead Center may be specified. Resolution 0.5 degree
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<b>Boost Control Calibration</b>
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Main Table (3D) 20 RPM sites x 10 Throttle sites or 10 Gear sites
Overall Trim
Engine Temperature and Air Temperature compensations
One Auxiliary compensation
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<b>Trigger Sensors</b>
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Directly compatible with most OEM trigger systems including: HALL, Magnetic and Optical types
Multi Tooth (e.g. Mazda and Toyota)
1 or 2 Missing Teeth (e.g. Porsche)
Many other special types (e.g. Ford Narrow Tooth, Nissan/Mitsubishi Optical, Harley Davidson, Honda, GM Opti-Spark, GM LS1, BMW, Subaru)
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<b>Air Fuel Ratio Sensor</b>
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High Accuracy Temperature Compensated Wide Band Air Fuel Ratio Sensor Input (Optional)
Range 0.75 to 1.20 Lambda
Resolution 0.01 Lambda
Accuracy 1.5% (below 1.05 La)
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<b>Other Sensors</b>
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Throttle Position, Manifold Pressure, Engine Temperature and Air Temperature
2 Auxiliary Sensor Inputs
2 Digital/Speed Inputs
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<b>Data Logging</b>
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Optional Logging memory allows logging of all ECU parameters
Memory Size 512 Kbytes
Logging Rate 1-20 sets/second
Logging Time 38 minutes at 5 sets /sec (28 Parameters + Diagnostics)
PC Software is available for analysis of the logged data
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<b>Special Functions</b>
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Traction Control & Launch Control (2 wheel speed sensors) (or 4 sensors using the Traction Control Multiplexer)
Gear Change Ignition Cut
Wide Band or Narrow Band Air Fuel Ratio Control (3D mapped)
Over Run Boost Enhancement
Warning Alarms (Sensor Hi/Lo)
Gear Detection
Ground Speed Limiting
Dual RPM Limit
Nitrous Oxide Enrich/Retard
Air Conditioner Request
Over Run Fuel Cut
Sensor Calibration Tables
RPM Limit Hard or Soft Cut Fuel and/or Ignition Cut
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<b>Auxiliary Outputs</b>
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Four general purpose outputs (2 shared with ignition outputs)
The outputs may be used for: Turbo Wastegate Control
Idle Speed Control
Fuel Used Pulse
Tachometer Output
Shift Light (Gear Dependant)
Driver Warning Alarm
RPM/Load dependant device
User Defined Table (20 x 11) with definable axis parameters
Slip Warning
Fuel Pump Relay
Thermatic Fan
Air Conditioner Fan or Clutch
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<b>Diagnostics</b>
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Injectors Open Circuit, Short Circuit, Peak Current Not Reached
Sensors Open & Short Circuit
Operating Errors RPM Limit Exceeded, Injector Overduty, Over Boost, Low Battery, Reference Error etc. <P>

<b>Calibration</b>
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PC Software is available for calibration
Telemetry Link
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Optional Telemetry Link allows real time monitoring and data logging
Operating Conditions
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Internal Temperature Range -10 to 85 degrees C
Ambient Temperature -10 to 70 degrees C (Depending on load and ventilation)
Operating Voltage 6 - 22 V DC
Operating Current 0.4 A max
Reverse Battery External Fuse
 

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Discussion Starter #4
"DarkStorm"
What this all really boils down to is how good a tuner you, or your tuner, are with the ems that you/they have selected for your car. What good is having 6 billion features if you only know how, or even have the ability, to use five or ten of them. All of the ems systems listed in this thread are more than capable of running our cars, with generous amounts of hp and tq. These systems can all get the same power out of the 2jz, assuming same setups in the cars and that they are being tuned by equally knowledgable tuners.
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There is no one better option over another for our cars. They all get the job done. The reality of this entire thread is that while there are many great specs to copy and past, my ems has a huge specs page too, they don't mean anything if you can't at least understand them. They really don't mean anything if you don't, or can't, use them.
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I don't think that anyone will argue that the Motec systems are top notch systems for propelling a car with ridiculous power down a track or down the street. The fact of the matter is that all of the others are too, if you know how to use them.
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I guess the definition of "crap" is relative to who is defining it. If "more horsepower than the Motec setups" is crap, then I guess there is a lot of crap out there. If "blowing up motors" is crap, then I guess every system out there, including the motecs, are crap.
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So, take this all with a grain of salt. I don't think that there are any motec IS300s out there pushing 700+rwhp right now. On at least two of the other systems listed in this thread there have been more than one 700+rwhp cars from different tuners, using different engine management systems.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Infini IV
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Motec really is a great company to turn to for it's EMS'. As mentioned, they are indeed pricey. However, once you get past the initial cost of just the computer and harness itself, you still have to pay a great sum of money to continue adding options.
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I've never played with Motec's but I'd assume that everything they offer is top-notch. At the same time, you can't justify what's "best" when it comes to EMS'. What's best is what suits you and your particular car, as well as what you are able to make the best use of. That said, Magnetti Marelli is used more often in professional racing (in FIA), than pretty much any other brand of engine management systems (from Formula 1 to WRC, etc.).
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Also, I want to point out that Autronic (SM2, and soon to be released SM4) has features that rival a couple of the Motec models while being significantly cheaper. Autronic was created by Richard Aubert, who was one of the key players in the design of Motec computers. He left Motec and started Autronic shortly after the Motec M4 was released. Autronic has a very user-friendly program called the "Auto-tune". As I understand it, it's pretty much as simple as inputting your target A/F ratios and running your engine through it's RPM and load ranges... then that's it, you're done with fuel mapping.
 
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