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Discussion Starter #1
Are there any American cars that compete with the IS300? My guess is only the Cadillac Catera..... I wonder why the Americans won't join in that fun niche (Audi A4, BMW 3-series, and Lexus IS). Maybe because they can't be competitive

Eric...
 

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In prodction:
Lincoln LS (Ford)
Volvo S60 T5 (Ford)
Volvo S40 T4 (Ford)
Saab Viggen (GM)
Ford Contour SVT
Dodge Intrepid R/T
Dodge Neon R/T
Chrysler GT Cruiser

Concept:
Jaguar X400 (Ford)
Mazda 626 Turbo (Ford)
Ford Taurus Supercharged
Oldsmobile Alero OSV
Oldsmobile Intrige OSV

[This message has been edited by Chiphead (edited October 30, 2000).]
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The Lincoln LS (V6) is more of a GS300 competitor and the others aren't true American cars in my book...

Eric....
 

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Does anyone know why Motor Trend left out the Lincoln LS in its IS vs. 328i vs. Catera contest? I would think, with its 5 speed trannie, that the LS is more of a competitor than the aging Catera.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Originally posted by IIIseries:
Does anyone know why Motor Trend left out the Lincoln LS in its IS vs. 328i vs. Catera contest? I would think, with its 5 speed trannie, that the LS is more of a competitor than the aging Catera.
Actually earlier Motor trend had compared the Lincoln LS with the larger Lexus GS300. So I guess they don't consider the LS to be in the same class as the IS300...
Eric...
 

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There_are_no_American competitors. The Catera is a sick joke and the LS is too big. 300M is too big and fwd.America is simply nowhere near capable or has no desire to compete in this segment. It's disgusting to see such mediocrity from American auto manufacturers.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yeah it seems that America Automakers want to stick with their Big boats with Archaic pushrod engine..... It is interesting though that cars like the Buick Roadmaster, Chevy Caprice, and Cadillac Fleetwood Broham were discontinued. Also the F-body cars (Camero & Firebird) are on verge of being extinct.... So it seems like the American public are more interested in the SUV (which America has covered) and the sports sedans (if only American Auto giants would recognize this)
Eric...
 

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I'll agree with Brad. The US does, without a doubt, have the engineering capabilities to build any car that it wants but it is, without a doubt, about makin' money. I guess the great American Public wants just large SUVs so they're gonna build 'em. Pitty. I consider my SHO a worthwhile start but I guess the whole idea of a performance or sport sedan just doesn't seem to wash in the good 'ol USA.
 

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There are some Pseudo-competitors, if you are willing to look at less refined, front wheel drive cars.

The supercharged (240hp) Grand-Prix GTP is trying to be a "compact performance sedan".



The Chevy Malibu is a sedan similar and size with some similar styling queues (although it has less performance)



Other sporty, small American sedans (some recently discontinued):

Chysler Cirrus


Ford Contour SVT
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The only one remotely appealing in that group is the Grand Prix GTP with 240 hp and 280 lb/ft of torque.... have any of you guys test driven it?
Eric....
 

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Originally posted by EricK:
So it seems like the American public are more interested in the SUV (which America has covered) and the sports sedans (if only American Auto giants would recognize this)
Eric...
Check unit sales figures. I don't think the "sports sedan" market is particularly big. I'd be surprised if COMBINED Lexus IS300, BMW 328/330 series, Audi A4 2.8/S4, Mercedes C280/320 sales totals equal Accord OR Camry OR Taurus OR even Civic sales SEPARATELY. The niche for 30-40K RWD sports sedans is already pretty crowded with German/Japanese entries. Include FWD and it's even more crowded.

If you want a sports analogy, asking why American manufacturers don't put out a competitive RWD sports sedan is like asking why the US can't put together a Team Handball squad that's as good as the Euros or Japanese. Sure, maybe there's an enthusiast board somewhere with a bunch of Americans on it who like Team Handball, but face it, it's not everyone's taste, esp. in the US. Attention is focused elsewhere.



[This message has been edited by RacerX (edited October 30, 2000).]
 

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I disagree Racer X. Is it your belief that we all WANT to buy German and Japanese sport sedans? Come on! I'd buy American in a heartbeat if it was possible. Point taken on total sales figures but there is still a huge market to tap that American auto manufacturers cannot or will not. Call me crazy but I think the Ford Focus R would be a great beginning. They already have the Lincoln LS that made a decent splash.
 

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I have test driven the Grand Prix GTP several times and came close to buying one. Clearly, it is not NEARLY as refined as the IS300, 3-Series, A4, etc... please. But it does have a lot of pop for the dollar. The Buick Regal GS is the same platform and powerplant and it scoots down the road pretty well too. 0-60 wise, there isn't really any other sedan in that price segment that can match it.

I spent considerable time in the GTP and found it to be pretty decent car. It definetely has more torque than the IS300 and if I were to have to commute everyday and deal with merging traffic all the time the GTP would be fine. One thing though... You better like plastic, I mean REALLY like plastic, because there's a whole crap-load of it on any Pontiac!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
If American automakers would produce cars with the refinement, Fit & Finish, and quality of the Germans & Japanese, then that's all I would buy... After all I'm an American.... Unfortunately though none of the American cars meet the standards set forth by the Germans and Japanese.... so until the American automakers improve their products, they are SH!T of of luck when it comes to my business....
Eric.....
Does anyone believe the the Mercedes ML series is having so many problems because it's built here?
 

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Keep in mind, Eric, that those problems on the ML were on the six cylinder that is produced in Alabama, not the ML 430, which was relatively trouble free. So to answer your question, I would say I don't know due to a lack of information but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that the 8 done in Europe is okay but the six done in America is not.

Originally posted by EricK:
Does anyone believe the the Mercedes ML series is having so many problems because it's built here?
 

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American technology and products tend to be of high quality, but when it comes to the auto industry, it's pretty disappointing and somewhat pathethic.

Amercian car companies will NEVER be able to make cars to compete with Lexus or BMW, let alone Hondas and Toyotas. Like what was said before, the dollar is their number one product and if American car companies know they can make a POS car (all fords/dodge/GMs) while making a dollar, they'll continue to do so.

Besides, there are still too many ignorant and uninformed american consumers that don't know that automobiles can be trouble free such as your Japanese cars.

just my .02
 

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You have gone WAY too far this time. Perhaps you are not old enough to remember that American cars used to be the best on the planet from probably the early twenties through the mid sixties. So don't tell me EVER when it has already happened for a forty year run.

Originally posted by vvtipwr:
American technology and products tend to be of high quality, but when it comes to the auto industry, it's pretty disappointing and somewhat pathethic.

Amercian car companies will NEVER be able to make cars to compete with Lexus or BMW, let alone Hondas and Toyotas. Like what was said before, the dollar is their number one product and if American car companies know they can make a POS car (all fords/dodge/GMs) while making a dollar, they'll continue to do so.

Besides, there are still too many ignorant and uninformed american consumers that don't know that automobiles can be trouble free such as your Japanese cars.

just my .02
 
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