Lexus IS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Anyone from NY looking to do a friendly race. I'm not trying to start any shit or start some hate shit between the sites. Just looking for an even race. No NOS, Turbo, supercharger. Headers and Intake and that other BS ok. Anyone Down?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
816 Posts
bnavarro said:
Anyone from NY looking to do a friendly race. I'm not trying to start any shit or start some hate shit between the sites. Just looking for an even race. No NOS, Turbo, supercharger. Headers and Intake and that other BS ok. Anyone Down?
I can understand the prohibition against NOS (you can get a riduculously NOS'ed car to run heroically for a few runs...), but there is no justification against SC or turbo. And did you even know that the Type S's intake box is known as a Helmholtz pressure-wave supercharger? Technically, you'd have to disable it for true N/A. What, you think a freer exhaust gave you guys that 35hp boost over the CL-P?

If it's a truly even race that you want, then you need to effectively give up 200cc's of displacement. It can be done with the right restriction plate.

In lieu of all that sh!t, I say run what you've brung. And we'll run F/I. You can do it too, ya know. Get yourself that Comptech SC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
In leiu of what u wrote, i have a CAI, so that gives up that so called intake box. And we get more HP than the CLP through higher compression. From 10.0:1 to 11.0:1. in the CLP and CLS. Now we all know that 200 cc of engine isn't much. i'm no motor head, but i do know alot. And i'm not a computer geek either.[/quote]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
and i don't get what u mean about no justification for no turbo or supercharger?? I"m talking NA vs NA. Off course, if i had a SC and you had stock, It wouldn't be fair, NO???????? I'm looking for someone with the same upgrades as me to run. That's it. Straight forward. U could say what u want about it being BS because of the 200 cc's. but i'm sure if u have a chip, i would make up for it. :chill:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Long island. Trust me, i'm not trying to start shit. My car is pretty much stock, except for the usual. CAI, headers, Exhaust.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
816 Posts
bnavarro said:
In leiu of what u wrote, i have a CAI, so that gives up that so called intake box. And we get more HP than the CLP through higher compression. From 10.0:1 to 11.0:1. in the CLP and CLS. Now we all know that 200 cc of engine isn't much. i'm no motor head, but i do know alot. And i'm not a computer geek either.
[/quote]

No it does not. The intake box I'm talking about is right on top of your engine. It's the so-called Mystery Mod that you guys have been talking about all of last year. That's the Helmholtz pressure-wave device.

So if indeed you do know a lot, please don't try to BS us. You might be surprised at how intimate I am with the CL-S.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,493 Posts
here is the only cl-s who got the balls to raise up to our challenge, ny is300 anyone, bring it to the track and have a go

too bad i am at bay area, if not i wouldnt mind the friendly race :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
816 Posts
bnavarro said:
and i don't get what u mean about no justification for no turbo or supercharger?? I"m talking NA vs NA. Off course, if i had a SC and you had stock, It wouldn't be fair, NO???????? I'm looking for someone with the same upgrades as me to run. That's it. Straight forward. U could say what u want about it being BS because of the 200 cc's. but i'm sure if u have a chip, i would make up for it. :chill:
Well, 200cc's is close to the difference between a CL-S and a 350Z (~300cc's). I think that says everything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
DtEW said:
bnavarro said:
and i don't get what u mean about no justification for no turbo or supercharger?? I"m talking NA vs NA. Off course, if i had a SC and you had stock, It wouldn't be fair, NO???????? I'm looking for someone with the same upgrades as me to run. That's it. Straight forward. U could say what u want about it being BS because of the 200 cc's. but i'm sure if u have a chip, i would make up for it. :chill:
Well, 200cc's is close to the difference between a CL-S and a 350Z (~300cc's). I think that says everything.
the engines build is the difference, not the 2 or 300CC's of displacement, you could get his motor to run at the sma elevels as a 350Z without the CID. and his "resonator" box does jack shit, it's a tuned intake manifold used to time the intake pulses correctly, it has nothing to do with FI whatsoever.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,493 Posts
go back to ur den fuckin cl-s dumbass !

we already beat some of ur fellow comrades, how many of u should we embarassed before u stop trolling our forum !

:bitching: :pissed: :bitching: :pissed:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
816 Posts
xtremepsi said:
the engines build is the difference, not the 2 or 300CC's of displacement, you could get his motor to run at the sma elevels as a 350Z without the CID. and his "resonator" box does jack shit, it's a tuned intake manifold used to time the intake pulses correctly, it has nothing to do with FI whatsoever.
Both people-in-the-know, Honda Corporate, the more technically proficient members at A-CL forums, and little ol' me beg to differ.

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showthread.php?s=384fa70dedcae9a6f88b26d0a9a852fb&threadid=88115

You're imposing an unnecessarily and unacceptedly strict definition for "forced induction", whereas it is a general effect whenever the engine has access to air intake density greater than ambient.

A Helmholtz device is not a noise-cancellation resonator box. Where it has to be located and what it does to induction waves are completely different relative to the plebian "resonator."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
so. . . all of the cars running 100+% VE are now using some type of "supercharger" because their intakes can take advantage of intake air pulses in order to "force" more air into the engine. If you've read the second link it clearly explains what I was talking about. air is pulled into the motor, as the intake valve closes it sends a pulse back up the runner to the plenum, the air being pulled into the plenum forces the air back into the runner and if tuned properly, the intake valve opens to let the air maintain it's speed. this isn't supercharging in any way shape or form, because in that case every engine is supercharged at one RPM or another, this happens in pretty much every engine., just depends how long of a window it works, variable runner intakes can make this window larger, but only acura has been making a big deal aobut this intake, more marketing BS; "VTEC" anybody?
how can you say this has anything to do with supercharging? forced induction in the real world implies that air is forced into the engine by some other means then its ability to pull it in on its own, this is just harnessing it's ability to pull air in on its own properly, if you want to be a technical asshole then you have to apply it to every engine, because every motor will have a period where this happens, guess we all have tot ell our insurance companies we're supercharged now? :roll:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
816 Posts
xtremepsi said:
so. . . all of the cars running 100+% VE are now using some type of "supercharger" because their intakes can take advantage of intake air pulses in order to "force" more air into the engine. If you've read the second link it clearly explains what I was talking about. air is pulled into the motor, as the intake valve closes it sends a pulse back up the runner to the plenum, the air being pulled into the plenum forces the air back into the runner and if tuned properly, the intake valve opens to let the air maintain it's speed.
No. You're describing a simple tuned intake port, although that also works via the Helmholtz principle. The Helmholtz device in question takes the resonance effect much further up the intake tract, through the plenum and all the way up to the end of the intake pipe. Here's two links to help you differentiate between the two:

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeApeRacing/tech/intakehelmholtz.cfm

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeApeRacing/tech/intaketuned.cfm

xtremepsi said:
this isn't supercharging in any way shape or form, because in that case every engine is supercharged at one RPM or another, this happens in pretty much every engine.
The definition for supercharging is actually fairly broad, encompassing turbocharging, ram-air, or even nitrous. I think you should go back to the term itself to see that it's a general term. Via your insistence for a mechanical compressor, what exactly about a compressor is "super"? Well? Or isn't much more rational to understand the "super" as a prefix to "charge" in the same way "superscript" and "subscript" works? In other words, to supercharge is to produce a more-than-atmospheric intake charge. You're mistaking the derivative word "supercharger" for the root word.

And a tuned-intake N/A engine with greater than 100% VE does output less like a purely atmospheric powerplant and more like a low-pressure turbo'ed powerplant...

xtremepsi said:
just depends how long of a window it works, variable runner intakes can make this window larger, but only acura has been making a big deal aobut this intake, more marketing BS; "VTEC" anybody?
No, again, not intake runners. A variable volume before the plenum. Porsche has been using this technique for awhile in its Varioram induction system.

xtremepsi said:
how can you say this has anything to do with supercharging? forced induction in the real world implies that air is forced into the engine by some other means then its ability to pull it in on its own, this is just harnessing it's ability to pull air in on its own properly, if you want to be a technical asshole then you have to apply it to every engine, because every motor will have a period where this happens, guess we all have tot ell our insurance companies we're supercharged now? :roll:
Though many engines are port-tuned, I don't believe all that many are tuned through the plenum/intake for power. They're usually tuned for noise supression.

And the insurance companies only define cars as being turbocharged/supercharged for their own financial reasons, not because they're some automotive authority to lend definition to terms. They only care if the car has a mechanical supercharger (inclusive of turbocharger) because of the added cost of repair of this item, and its usually significant influence on the car's performance and target audience. It doesn't mean tuned plenum/intake pressure-wave supercharging isn't supercharging; it's just the effects are less dramatic to the point that the insurance companies would incur more expense trying to differentiate the two.

Call that last part a humorless reply to sarcasm, but I don't find you very humorous on-the-whole either.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,590 Posts
Benign said:
here is the only cl-s who got the balls to raise up to our challenge, ny is300 anyone, bring it to the track and have a go

too bad i am at bay area, if not i wouldnt mind the friendly race :)
Boy, he does have some balls to challenge the NorthEast part of the IS300 members. (Most of the high hp IS300 are in the NJ, PA, NY, MD area). Not surprised of the challenge, most of the New Yorkers have balls. "bnavarro", if you're in L.I., you should check our DPA on Sat. nights. :wink: . You might see few IS300s checking out the scene. :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,384 Posts
Hmm this isnt even close to a far race !!!!!! what part of LI? I work in melville

headers give HUGE gains on honda v6s . you have more power to start with and dont weigh anymore? whats the point of the race?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
i'm with bnavarro, i've played around with one IS since i've had my car it was a white one with that factory option that has the exhaust and the suspension and the kit. not sure what...but i'm definitely down for a friendly race. I'm on long island also. Actually let me know when this goes down cuz i wanna witness :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
all i described was the effect of the helmholtz resonator, granted it should lead to greater effects then a simple TPI setup but the result is the same; timing pressure waves to feed the engine air in pulses, the CL just uses a plenum designed to work with these pulses, almost every aftermarket company builds intakes (at least the good companies) that will take advantage of this, acura simply markets the helmholtz resonator name because people dont understand it, but it SOUNDS impressive.
i'm not going to get into a discussion of supercharger definitions, unless you can prove that the CL's engine runs at more then 100% VE at any point, all this intake does is help feed it air better, and billy bobs website doesnt count as a source.
you can play with the definitions to prove your point all that you like, ram air does not come under the definition of supercharging the air because all you're doing is giving it a direct flow into the intake box, timing pulses within the intake tract is not charging the air any greater then ambient density so that cant be considered supercharging either. nitrous could be in a sense, but its a chemical reaction to heat that releases the oxygen, a very loose supercharging definition could be applied.
i'm aware of how the varioram works, i wasnt simply stating that variable runner length was the ONLY system, but the effect is similar to variable volume intakes, it changes the distance in which the pressure wave has to travel, it's just a different way of doing it.
and your reply wasn't very humorous either, my insurance comment wasnt to be taken seriously.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,157 Posts
nitrous is a form of forced induction




xtremepsi said:
all i described was the effect of the helmholtz resonator, granted it should lead to greater effects then a simple TPI setup but the result is the same; timing pressure waves to feed the engine air in pulses, the CL just uses a plenum designed to work with these pulses, almost every aftermarket company builds intakes (at least the good companies) that will take advantage of this, acura simply markets the helmholtz resonator name because people dont understand it, but it SOUNDS impressive.
i'm not going to get into a discussion of supercharger definitions, unless you can prove that the CL's engine runs at more then 100% VE at any point, all this intake does is help feed it air better, and billy bobs website doesnt count as a source.
you can play with the definitions to prove your point all that you like, ram air does not come under the definition of supercharging the air because all you're doing is giving it a direct flow into the intake box, timing pulses within the intake tract is not charging the air any greater then ambient density so that cant be considered supercharging either. nitrous could be in a sense, but its a chemical reaction to heat that releases the oxygen, a very loose supercharging definition could be applied.
i'm aware of how the varioram works, i wasnt simply stating that variable runner length was the ONLY system, but the effect is similar to variable volume intakes, it changes the distance in which the pressure wave has to travel, it's just a different way of doing it.
and your reply wasn't very humorous either, my insurance comment wasnt to be taken seriously.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
IS300GTE said:
nitrous is a form of forced induction




xtremepsi said:
all i described was the effect of the helmholtz resonator, granted it should lead to greater effects then a simple TPI setup but the result is the same; timing pressure waves to feed the engine air in pulses, the CL just uses a plenum designed to work with these pulses, almost every aftermarket company builds intakes (at least the good companies) that will take advantage of this, acura simply markets the helmholtz resonator name because people dont understand it, but it SOUNDS impressive.
i'm not going to get into a discussion of supercharger definitions, unless you can prove that the CL's engine runs at more then 100% VE at any point, all this intake does is help feed it air better, and billy bobs website doesnt count as a source.
you can play with the definitions to prove your point all that you like, ram air does not come under the definition of supercharging the air because all you're doing is giving it a direct flow into the intake box, timing pulses within the intake tract is not charging the air any greater then ambient density so that cant be considered supercharging either. nitrous could be in a sense, but its a chemical reaction to heat that releases the oxygen, a very loose supercharging definition could be applied.
i'm aware of how the varioram works, i wasnt simply stating that variable runner length was the ONLY system, but the effect is similar to variable volume intakes, it changes the distance in which the pressure wave has to travel, it's just a different way of doing it.
and your reply wasn't very humorous either, my insurance comment wasnt to be taken seriously.
Thats semi-accurate .. but F/I is generally referred to mechanical means of introducing more oxygen into the combustion chamber ... NOT by introducing a richer oxygenated fuel source. If Nitrous was F/I then saying oxygenated gasoline is a mild for of F/I also ....
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
About this Discussion
45 Replies
12 Participants
IS300GTE
Lexus IS Forum
Community dedicated to Lexus IS Enthusiasts. Come in and enjoy our articles, galleries and information on aftermarket parts for the IS300, IS250, IS350.
Full Forum Listing
Top