[cyclops]

B4 you start reading, a disclaimer that this is nothing racist. So no bashing, no war, just personal feeling. OK, my IS brothers?

Do you guys ever think that the American magazines have some kind stereotype against the Japanese cars? I didn't notice it until I acutally own one. They always think that Japanese cars are just some copycats of the American or European. American cars are always the best, with European a close second. I think that's the mindset in most American writers. I haven't seen a comparison that has IS beats 3 or A4 yet. Especially the current C&D, having the IS losing to the current generation A4, that pisses me off. I mean, man, this is the Japanese car of the year.....man, this is driving me nuts...what do you think?

 

[VBGOD]

So if it wins.. the magazine is correct? If it loses, then the magazine is racist? Riiiiiiiiigggghhhhttt.....

 

[cakennedy]

I think it depends on your viewpoint...just like any other make, you guys are so involved with your car that anything negative is personal. I honestly can't see much bias in any of the magazines, and I don't put a whole lot of value in any of their opinions (especially Motor Trend).

You do have to notice, however 2 things: the reviews and comparison tests are conducted by bona fide automotive enthusiasts, just like us, and BMW keeps winning these tests, time after time. All matchups, all model levels. Is there a favorable bias toward BMW? Perhaps, but more likely, BMW just builds better cars than anyone else.

Just food for thought

 

[brad]

A little Holiday Humor for us. Thanks.

Originally posted by cakennedy:
I think it depends on your viewpoint...just like any other make, you guys are so involved with your car that anything negative is personal. I honestly can't see much bias in any of the magazines, and I don't put a whole lot of value in any of their opinions (especially Motor Trend).


You do have to notice, however 2 things: the reviews and comparison tests are conducted by bona fide automotive enthusiasts, just like us, and BMW keeps winning these tests, time after time. All matchups, all model levels. Is there a favorable bias toward BMW? Perhaps, but more likely, BMW just builds better cars than anyone else.


Just food for thought

 

[cakennedy]

Hey, I come in peace. I mean what I say, but I'm not an asshole about it...just responding to the post. Of course I'm a BMW guy, but I'd rather hang out with you guys than the pricks on bimmer.org. Is that OK?

 

[cyclops]

Very nice try, but you won't get anything started. BTW, if you hate IS, what are you doing in here? I guess you really don't have anything better to do. I understand it's hard for a guy like you to pick up any chick with a Hyundai. Grapes are sour, for you especially.

Of course I know you're gonna say "Oh, I drive a BMW, or MB, and Lexus sucks...blah blah blah" See? That's the great part about Internet, even you sit your a$$ painfully in a Hyundai everyday, you can still tell people that you're in a bimmer or else. May be you can be creative this time, tell us you're in Ferrari. We IS brothers will understand you....peace. We are looking forward to your hyundaielantra.net

 

[cakennedy]

Originally posted by cyclops:
Very nice try, but you won't get anything started. BTW, if you hate IS, what are you doing in here? I guess you really don't have anything better to do. I understand it's hard for a guy like you to pick up any chick with a Hyundai. Grapes are sour, for you especially.

Of course I know you're gonna say "Oh, I drive a BMW, or MB, and Lexus sucks...blah blah blah" See? That's the great part about Internet, even you sit your a$$ painfully in a Hyundai everyday, you can still tell people that you're in a bimmer or else. May be you can be creative this time, tell us you're in Ferrari. We IS brothers will understand you....peace. We are looking forward to your hyundaielantra.net

Very nice, thank you. But did you read the post? I'm not starting anything, and I happen to think the IS300 is a fantastic car, and a huge step in the right direction for Toyota. In my very humble opinion, it's no match for a certain line of Teutonic automobiles, but that's been done to death here and elsewhere.

I simply responded to the original post. I'm not a troll, and not an asshole. If you disagree with my post, or would like to discuss our cars cordially, I would too. I'm here because the BMW boards are full of pricks and practically unreadable. Is that OK, or should I go away now?

You've got a forum just for owners. Am I correct in understanding that owners of other makes are welcome to post here?

 

[4yoazz]

I'm not an a--hole either, but there's plenty of bias when it comes to car magazines. And cyclops is right American cars will always get favorable reviews. Then since American cars usually can't compete with the Japanese, European cars are the next best thing. They're kinda the adopted American alternative. Some of the reviews I've read were so bias it wasn't even funny. They'll say things like: If we counted price in the comparison the Japanese car would have been first, but we didn't. The only way you're ever going to get the truth about Japanese car companies is to read articles on just that one particular car. If it's in a comparison don't even waste your time. It's not worth the paper the words are printed on.

Cakennedy - These people are not bona fide enthusiasts. What college course, graduate course or doctorate classes have they taken. They are no more qualified than most of us here. Just people who like automobiles that may have gotten a degree in journalism. Don't believe everything you read.

------------------

 

[cakennedy]

Originally posted by 4yoazz:
Cakennedy - These people are not bona fide enthusiasts. What college course, graduate course or doctorate classes have they taken. They are no more qualified than most of us here. Just people who like automobiles that may have gotten a degree in journalism. Don't believe everything you read.

I understand why you might perceive a bias, but if you ignore Motor Trend, I honestly think that the writers and editors of Car & Driver and Road & Track are highly qualified to evaluate cars. I often disagree with their conclusions, but they (usually) have well-reasoned argumets. These are automotive professionals, some former racers and former auto engineers, that have driven thousands of different cars, including supercars we'll only dream about. I'm a car guy, but I can't objectively compare a 330i to an IS300 because I've only driven the IS300 briefly, and certainly not in a 9/10ths situation.

So I rely on the words of those who have, tempered with my own experiences.

 

[4yoazz]

O'kay, I feel what you're saying. But think about this on some reviews I've read that had nothing to do with the IS. 328i with sports suspension vs Cl-s. They totally blew off price and content. But 0-60 cl-s 6.7 and bmw 6.86 they said not that big of a difference. 490ft slalom bmw 46mph, cl-s 42.6 they said now that's a huge difference. What? LS400, BMW 750il and MB s500. They said if price were considered the LS400 would have been first, If you want speed it's not for you, it's the best for serenity and tranquility it doesn't have a sporty enough feel to it. It's the luxury car segment for christs sake, 0-60 in 6.3 which is faster than the BMW and the MB. You don't call that bias!!! No matter what they've raced, no matter what type of engineer they may have been, anytime you have subjectivity the outcome can always be questioned and almost never trusted.

------------------

 

[4yoazz]

Oh, btw that cl-s and 328 comparison was auto vs manual. They always do that not to try to make the Japanese come out with a manual but to make the differences in performance times look worse than they are. If you used the cl-s 6.7 to 328 auto 7.5 then their argument becomes moot because those cold hard figures would be staring you in the face!!!!

------------------

 

[cakennedy]

I agree, of course, that any subjective decision can be disagreed with. And I'm also pretty sure that 90% of the "shootouts" are between spare cars that the manufacturers were willing to supply, and not between specifically-equipped cars. That is, I doubt Road and Track, when they compared the 330ci manual to a CL-S, really started out by looking for "the sportiest-equipped model from each manufacturer." More likely, BMW had a spare 330ci sport package manual lying around.

So what we see as readers are tests that are mismatched to begin with, but I doubt it's by specific intention on the magazine's part. I'm not saying that these comparisons and opinions are always (or even often) plasible, just that I doubt they are the product of a systematic media bias.

 

[ckolsen]

I always thought US car magazines are biased toward German cars, notice how the Golf, Passat, 3 series, 5 series, and A4 win every comparison. Golf over Civic Si, Passat over Accord/Camry, etc. I don't think they like American cars, which come in last in every comparison. The Japanese do get a lot of praise though, and C&D really loved the IS300, but gave it 3rd cause it had no manual.

Originally posted by cyclops:
B4 you start reading, a disclaimer that this is nothing racist. So no bashing, no war, just personal feeling. OK, my IS brothers?

Do you guys ever think that the American magazines have some kind stereotype against the Japanese cars? I didn't notice it until I acutally own one. They always think that Japanese cars are just some copycats of the American or European. American cars are always the best, with European a close second. I think that's the mindset in most American writers. I haven't seen a comparison that has IS beats 3 or A4 yet. Especially the current C&D, having the IS losing to the current generation A4, that pisses me off. I mean, man, this is the Japanese car of the year.....man, this is driving me nuts...what do you think?

 

[VBGOD]

Originally posted by cakennedy:
I understand why you might perceive a bias, but if you ignore Motor Trend, I honestly think that the writers and editors of Car & Driver and Road & Track are highly qualified to evaluate cars. I often disagree with their conclusions, but they (usually) have well-reasoned argumets. These are automotive professionals, some former racers and former auto engineers, that have driven thousands of different cars, including supercars we'll only dream about.

True. Also, I would like anybody here to show me a biased article about the IS300. Some of you are forgetting about Edmunds and Consumer Reports, which openly hate American cars. So calm down, the IS300 gets nothing but great reviews. Also, the BMW 330Ci is better, but that’s another story.

 

[4yoazz]

vbgod - I don't think anybody here is upset or being an a--hole. I think it's a good discussion with people with different opinions. The people who come off as a-ssholes usually don't know how to express themselves in an intelligent manner. I agree also that the 330ci is performance wise a better car. Although, they're not in the same category. You mentioned Edmunds. Edmunds has not done a comparison yet on these cars. That's why I say read the reviews about each car by themselves because you get the true story. Don't read comparisons. For example, read their comparison from last year of the BMW 750il, MB s500 and the LS400. You'll see what I'm talking about with bias. You can manipulate numbers anyway you want to get the result you want.

Oh cakennedy, btw I understand what you were talking about with supply. Good point. Never thought of that as a possibility. But doesn't it seem funny as ckolsen mentioned the IS got 3rd because of an option that it doesn't have yet? That would be like them saying the CL-s was 1st choice because the 330 in the test car didn't have the nav system standard. Wouldn't you ask yourself, well why didn't you get one with the nav system or not use it as a factor in your comparison?

------------------

 

[cyclops]

Hey cakennedy, my message wasn't directed to your comment, mine is to VBGod. Your comment sounds really fair. I apologize for the confusion. But VBGod, again, if you hate IS, and you're just here to start some fights, we will suggest to go somewhere else.

 

[VBGOD]

Originally posted by cyclops:
Hey cakennedy, my message wasn't directed to your comment, mine is to VBGod. Your comment sounds really fair. I apologize for the confusion. But VBGod, again, if you hate IS, and you're just here to start some fights, we will suggest to go somewhere else.

You may suggest other places, but I'm here to stay, bitch.

 

[VBGOD]

What, don't like my title?

VBGOD
IS300 Hater
Posts: 65
From:Colts Neck
Registered: May 2000

Get over it..

 

[cyclops]

VBGod, I think you SHOULD stay after all. I mean you won't have a home until you build the hyundaielantra.com, so feel free to stay here. I'm so happy to see you Hyundai owner to share joy with us in here. May be few years later, when we get tired of our IS or the new IS comes out, we can sell our cars to you for an affordable price(affordable to you of course, we all know you will never get to the point of buying a over $30K car), so do come back more often to check. IT WILL HAPPEN, believe me.

Oh, btw, don't call me bitch. I think your parents deserve that title before me, since they are the reason why you're driving a Hyundai now, instead of a IS300. So, we do understand why you hate IS300, I'm sure you hate the likes of bimmer, Audi, mb....of course you like Hyundai and Daewoo. I know I know....

 

[VBGOD]

Originally posted by cyclops:
VBGod, I think you SHOULD stay after all. I mean you won't have a home until you build the hyundaielantra.com, so feel free to stay here. I'm so happy to see you Hyundai owner to share joy with us in here. May be few years later, when we get tired of our IS or the new IS comes out, we can sell our cars to you for an affordable price(affordable to you of course, we all know you will never get to the point of buying a over $30K car), so do come back more often to check. IT WILL HAPPEN, believe me.

Oh, btw, don't call me bitch. I think your parents deserve that title before me, since they are the reason why you're driving a Hyundai now, instead of a IS300. So, we do understand why you hate IS300, I'm sure you hate the likes of bimmer, Audi, mb....of course you like Hyundai and Daewoo. I know I know....

Your statement isn't smart, funny, or cute. What's up with your obsession with Hyundai's? Is that your current car? I'm not knocking it, I'm sure Hyundai is a good overall value, but you shouldn't brag about it. That's all.

I will keep the title Lexus Hater to piss off pricks like yourself.

By the way, IS300 does not equal super car..

S h i t , I bet your a 20 year old punk that drives around in daddies car.