[Hodgdon Extreme]

botched ATI Damper install

I was once helping a buddy work on his Grand Prix GTP; he had the balancer off it for whatever reason. Anyway, when he installed the balancer, he didn't have the keyway lined up - and proceeded to try and get it seated with the impact. Wish I had a picture of that balancer - because he damn near forged a new keyway into it.

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

I think oil changes @ 50, 250 and 500 miles is excessive.

I've always warmed them up, checked for leaks, then taken them out on the road for WOT pulls in 4th gear. First from 2000-4000rpm followed by snapping the throttle shut for a coast down. Then again from 2000-5000 and snap the throttle shut. Then 2000-rev limiter, followed by snapping the throttle shut. Usually you'll see a good plume of oil smoke as you close the throttle after the first pull, and then not again.

Drive it home, change the oil. Done.

Of course, ask 1000 people about engine break in and you'll get 5000 answers, so....

Anyway, looking great. Good luck, hope you make Cars and Coffee!!

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

In reviewing some of the older pics - I noticed your air-assist pipe sticking up out of your lower manifold...

Just an FYI (since you have it capped and I assume you will not be using air-assist injectors anymore): You can easily remove that steel pipe by twisting/pulling on it with a pair of pliers. You can then either drill/tap for a pipe plug, or as I did, weld the hole shut.

You can sorta make it out in this pic; it appears as a bump below the VVTi connector, and just slightly above the VVTi oil banjo fitting:

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

I just want to drive again.

Preach!

My car has been down since last July... for what I thought would be a "three hour tour". As the layers of the onion peeled back, the scope of the project just got bigger and bigger.

At this point, the arrangement is almost completely done - but I've still got months and months to wait for my harness and ECU.

At least it gives plenty of time to ensure every detail is all squared away... having been in a rush to get stuff up and running many times before, there's a lot that can be said for taking it slow and steady.

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

Both cam and crank sensors are simply variable reluctance sensors. They require no input voltage/power to work. They create a voltage as the ferrous reluctor material swings by the sensor itself.

That said, the ecu could potentially require better than 8V to properly read the signal.

You should definitely be getting better than 8V while cranking. IIRC, my car usually had 10.5 or 11 while cranking (as indicated by my old Haltech). A good battery should read 12.5V under no load.

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

You can replace the synchronizer for 4th (input shaft) real easy on an R154, I believe the AR5 would be same. Aside from sliding the guts out of the case, (or sliding the case off of the guts, really) very little disassembly required... hour or so of work once the trans is out of the car.

Glad its up and running!!

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

I have zero IACV on this car. It's just set with the stock idle screws that you aren't supposed to mess with haha. I should use an IACV but it's no big deal and the weather here is hot usually so that morning was a strange exception. I'm actually going to set the idle a lot lower since it idles at 1200ish with the AC on anyway. I think I want about 1000 or less, technically it should be 700 +/- 50 but who cares.

I certainly don't portend to be very familiar with ECUmaster, but isn't idle control mostly handled via spark?

On most systems I am familiar with:

You set the throttle or IAC valve so that you get an abundance of air - enough for the engine to idle a couple hundred RPM higher than you actually desire - including power steering, air conditioning and electrical loads... ASSUMING MBT timing for that load point.

(MBT timing implies peak torque output for that airflow/fueling condition. For example, with the throttle slightly cracked open, your engine might idle @ 900rpm @ 10º timing, but increasing timing to 20º might increase RPM to 1100rpm)

Thus, you now have enough airflow to handle any idle load condition - it'll all now just depend on how much timing the ECU delivers

With no electical, AC or steering load, you should be able to idle at 750-800rpm @ 10º timing. When you introduce loads, rpm will sag, and the closed-loop idle ignition control will ramp in more timing to compensate.

(the numbers I've provided here are all estimates and not actual calibration values for you to use)

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

Lack of evap isn't hurting fuel economy. Might cause fuel smell though.

Careful how you splice/extend cam/crank/knock signals. Must be shielded, twisted pairs. Even then, making them so long will increase noise in/on the signal.

These cars are so old, OEM harnesses are all old brittle pieces of crap. You should buy or build a new one. Building is a bunch of tedious work, but you won't need to figure that much out - you'll mainly be reproducing. If you've not been through it before, it'll be a good experience to get under your belt. Plan to spend a good handful of hundreds on wiring supplies, and a bunch of time, though.

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

Dude that originally installed the Haltech in my car managed to squeeze it in behind the passenger side kick-panel - about even with the bottom edge of the glovebox. This was the E6K ecu, which was relatively small - but it was a nice spot for an ecu.

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

Step one is to use your ecu to perform a basic function test of the boost solenoid. It should chatter when commanded on. Second, pull the lines off the solenoid and verify the Normally Open (NO) port flows freely, and the Normally Closed (NC) port does not flow at all - test this with solenoid DE-ENERGIZED. I'll usually just draw a little vacuum on the NC line with my mouth, then seal the line with my tongue. You can feel if it's holding vacuum or not.

Next is to simply visually verify condition of your lines and inspect the clamps/zipties to satisfy yourself they don't look like they're leaking.

From my experience, the most common cause of boost control issues is an improperly plumbed solenoid. Not being critical or accusatory of you; I've done it myself more than once!

Ensure you've got your MAC valve configured like this:

Port 1 is Normally Closed or NC - this means the valve will block any signal to the top of the WG until you begin energizing the valve with duty cycle. The bottom of the WG diaphragm gets full boost signal, and you'll be operating on spring pressure only.
Port 2 is Normally Open - this means the top of the diaphragm is vented to atmosphere and no chance of any pressure/vacuum building up on top of the diaphragm

When you energize the valve with duty cycle - you'll be allowing some pressure to get from Port 1 to Port 2, which will act on the top of the diaphragm, counteracting some of the pressure on the bottom of the diaphragm.

If all that is correct, I'd move on to pressure testing (only 10-15psi) the diaphragm of the WG. Usually a problem here will result in overboost though, so probably not the issue.

Then take a good look around for any signs of exhaust leaks. In the case of my current turbo car, I was underboosting. I went through the whole process above and all was good. Was really scratching my head and just recently discovered I had a nice crack in my manifold...so my WG and spring were just fine - the problem was a cracked manifold was leaking the pressure required to drive the turbine harder.

Hope this doesn't come off remedial or condescending - it's not meant that way. You should easily be able to get boost pressure about 2.5 times greater than spring pressure... So unless your WG spring is only 3-4 lbs, I think your issue is likely elsewhere.

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

Yup, definitely need some DC to put some pressure on top of the diaphragm! Usually you'll need to get above ~25% or so to get any boost increase. While you're at it, make sure you've got the frequency set appropriately for the output mapped to your MAC valve; I think most like somewhere between 25-50hz.

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

The throttle body took my whole Friday night unfortunately, so about 4 or 5 hours start to finish. That includes cutting it all up. It's gonna take about another 2 or 3 to get it where I want it because I was lazy but it's fine for now. Not to mention the time I'm going to take to rebuild it. This thing's been a real "investment" of time and I really hope it pays off.

I still think you shoulda done DBW. I will continue to think this until my DBW scheme doesn't work out and I have to backtrack and resort to a cable throttle...!

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

Not meaning to cast any doubts on your buddy, (his workmanship looks great ), but having seen how some of those adaptor plates have to "convert" the air flow into the head personally I doubt a lot of the benefit of changing the plenum over is accomplished. I could be wrong but on the one i saw it had to move an inlet over about 1/2" using an adaptor plate about 1/2" thick, so pretty much a 45degree angle, not good for flow dynamics going ```\__ if you know what i mean. Its been a while since i saw it though...

The GTE/GE upper/lower manifolds aren't misaligned 0.500", but there is certainly misalignment and therefore a "kink" introduced into the runner. Not ideal, to be sure - but based on my experience with the Ford 2.3 turbo Lima engines I used to play with (which had awful ports and manifolds) - I don't think the kink is anything an extra pound or two of boost won't cure.

It would be an abortion for a performance NA engine, or even a max-effort turbo engine - but I think it'll be ok for a hot street car.

I'm using one of the adaptors from SupraVworld, which is ~10mm thick... but I'm still several months away from the car running. Hopefully I'll be on the dyno sometime this year so I can share data on this. I'll be using the same dyno I was on the first time around so the results should be fairly relevant.

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

you are probably right, i am probably too used to NA approach, it is a lot difference with a pressurized system. Still i wonder what benefit the GTE manifold has over GE for a hot street car...

You're right too. And it's a myth that forced induction is some kind of magic voodoo that forgives all sins. In almost all cases, you can very closely approximate what forced induction power and torque will be by multiplying NA power/torque by the pressure ratio.

If you make 100hp NA, and then add 1 atmosphere of boost (1 bar, 100kpa, 15psi), you are doubling the effective pressure causing air to flow into the cylinder. You should expect to make 200hp.

Thus, anything you can do to improve NA power will be multiplied by boost.

But, boost can certainly cover up some deficiencies. For example, my 2.3L turbo ford made about 400whp through a terrible cylinder head. 400whp is a solid number - but it took over 25psi boost to do it. I never tested it NA, but it likely would have only been a pathetic150hp or so...

Regarding the GTE upper intake: I did it primarily for looks. A secondary reason is a shorter and cleaner charge piping arrangement. Some people might argue that'll improve response, but I don't think it's anything measurable. But it makes me feel better. I'm not expecting any performance gain compared to the "over the valvecover" GE intake. But c'mon...the GTE manifold looks way better.

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

Seems like a useful little device.

Looks to me like pushing the AC button on your HVAC control will trigger an output on the device capable of pulling in a relay you can use to engage your AC clutch. It appears it also takes an input from your AC pressure switch to interrupt the analog output to the AC clutch relay.

Also cool you can allegedly use the device to drive the MPG gage. Can't imagine how that could possibly be made to be accurate (based on fact device has no inputs necessary to carry out such a calculation), but at least the gage won't be dead!

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

What was going to be a week long project seems a lot more like a few long weekends, with obvious start and end points

Famous last words...

I might try and whip up a beefier fuel pump relay and try to ditch the stocker sooner than later.

Don't forget the IS300 "fuel pump relay" is actually a fuel pump voltage selection switch. When FPR is open, fuel pump current passes through the FP resistor, limiting FP voltage/speed. When FPR is closed, the FP resistor is bypassed and FP gets full current. All the FP current must pass through the circuit opening relay and EFI relay.

My recommendation is to bypass the FP resistor, then use the old FP power wiring to close your new, heavy-duty relay. This way, so long as the OEM circuit opening relay and EFI relay are closed - your new HD FP relay will be closed also. Or get fancy and use a PWM solid state relay for fuel pump.

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

which solid state relay do you recommend?

Any Crydom that's in stock from the following Mouser search query:

https://www.mouser.com/c/electromechanical/industrial-automation/industrial-relays-accessories/solid-state-relays-industrial-mount/?control%20voltage%20range=3%20VDC%20to%2032%20VDC~~4%20VDC%20to%2032%20VDC&load%20current%20rating=25%20A~~100%20A&load%20voltage%20rating=0%20VDC%20to%2060%20VDC~~7%20VDC%20to%2048%20VDC&m=Sensata&mounting%20style=Panel%20Mount&rp=electromechanical%2Findustrial-automation%2Findustrial-relays-accessories%2Fsolid-state-relays-industrial-mount%7C~Load%20Current%20Rating%7C~Load%20Voltage%20Rating%7C~Control%20Voltage%20Range

You need one meant to switch direct current, as the construction/function of SSRs designed to switch AC is different.

It needs to be rated for at least as much current draw as your fuel pump; in my case that's 25A, but the higher the SSR is rated, the less heat will build up and the less need for a heat sink.

It needs a control voltage of less than whatever your ecu auxilliary output voltage is. That'll usually be 12V, but make sure you check, else your ecu won't have the voltage to switch the SSR on/off.

It needs a load voltage of at least 12V, the voltage your load (pump) runs on.

Look at the datasheet PDF for the Crydom SSR; it has part numbers for accessories like covers, heatsinks, etc - if you want to add any of that stuff...

You'll also need a fast-recovery diode wired across the load, as depicted on the instructions/datasheet for the SSR:

Something like this:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Semiconductors/VS-30EPH06L-N3?qs=Fd5IDHV0Wqx9kaB7PzN9sw%3D%3D

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

Damn, that sounds rough. Is that normal?

Yes. My buddy and I learned the hard way that these bushings were hydraulic. The splooge that came out was disgusting - and it had a warming effect on the skin kinda like brake fluid.

@_zaclemore Too late now, but you prolly shoulda installed one of the Fig's rear subframe reinforcement plates...

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

@Hodgdon Extreme who makes the plate that can mount the gs400 rear diff?

Figs: https://shopfigs.com/v5/by-vehicle/cat-is/G1-IS300-CAT/L1197?limit=100

A thread about installing it: Differential Swap in the Works

 

[Hodgdon Extreme]

Bushings are a tedious, messy job. Generally speaking, I've found a shop press with a nice accompaniment of various plate, pipe and puck fixtures - and/or a good air chisel to be the best means of removing.

I've ever resorted to the blue-tip wrench, but it makes a god awful stink and greasy/rubbery mess. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Installation is better, but one or two of the one-piece super pro control arm bushings where I needed to machine up a "bushing funnel" to get it started. Without the funnel, it would squirm around instead of going into its home.

For my rear subframe, i simply filled the original bushings with 3M window weld, which is about 65A durometer, and firmed them up quite a bit. Mine were in good shape to begin with though.