[IS-F-I-Found]

Has anyone heard whether Lexus will unveil it's 2002 IS3 next month at the Auto Shows? I wonder what options the next IS3 will REALLY have. VSC, Manual tranny, Navigation and arm rest would be a wonderful start!

Also, is the first Auto show in L.A.? Or Detroit?

 

[Jebzter]

All I know from my sources deep within the Lexus World is that the next line of IS3 fighters will feature a V8, 6-speed manual tranny, minor front and rear facelifts, auto-dimming rear-view mirror, special leather contoured seats (like the M3) with memory; DVD will also be included. 18" Lexus rims, a slightly lower suspension - not as low as some A/M lowering springs.

It will be called the IS 405. MSRP was still vague but according to my sources, it will match the M3, approx. $42K+

I'll keep you guys posted on the new IS 405 pre-production vehicle.

 

[TEG]

Quit jerking their chains, Jebzter.

 

[IS-F-I-Found]

Originally posted by Jebzter:
All I know from my sources deep within the Lexus World is that the next line of IS3 fighters will feature a V8, 6-speed manual tranny, minor front and rear facelifts, auto-dimming rear-view mirror, special leather contoured seats (like the M3) with memory; DVD will also be included. 18" Lexus rims, a slightly lower suspension - not as low as some A/M lowering springs.

It will be called the IS 405. MSRP was still vague but according to my sources, it will match the M3, approx. $42K+

I'll keep you guys posted on the new IS 405 pre-production vehicle.

Hmmm, almost sounds like a BMW 540, if you add several grand to the price tag.

I'm sure we can expect to see a manual IS on the Auto Show circuit. If anyone else has actual "inside info"

please let us know.

 

[ckolsen]

ahem. Bull****. No offense.

Originally posted by Jebzter:
All I know from my sources deep within the Lexus World is that the next line of IS3 fighters will feature a V8, 6-speed manual tranny, minor front and rear facelifts, auto-dimming rear-view mirror, special leather contoured seats (like the M3) with memory; DVD will also be included. 18" Lexus rims, a slightly lower suspension - not as low as some A/M lowering springs.

It will be called the IS 405. MSRP was still vague but according to my sources, it will match the M3, approx. $42K+

I'll keep you guys posted on the new IS 405 pre-production vehicle.

 

[Jebzter]

OK Guys...

WHEN the IS405 does come out, please search back to this thread...as everybody knows, I dont post BS stuff...only information I know that can help propel some discussion.

80% Fact. 20% Fiction.

Anyhow, you will be seeing in the next two years somewhat of a similar model in shows, esp. Lexus Racing, *hint* *hint*, pace cars, etc.

Hope this helps ease the "bullcrap" as some of you mentioned...

By the way, I'm off to Melbourne, Australia, Osaka, Bangkok, Manila then back to DC on Monday for my much deserved break...I'll see what I can get over there that we cant get here yet.

Cheers...

[From TEG: Sounds like you are planning to pick up some communicable diseases!!!]


[This message has been edited by TEG (edited December 12, 2000).]

 

[brad]

So my question is how will Lexus separate the G4 from the I4? Turbocharging? No way. Supercharging? Doubtful. As soon as I see designs for a M5 competitor in the G line I'll believe it.

 

[Jebzter]

My Marketingn thoughts exactly...I am not too sure how they will market that but imagine the power on that car...yikes!

There could be a market share distinction between GS owners and IS owners whereas the IS caters to a more young sophisticated crowd who are still into tuning.

The GS could be segmented as the other market share, much older, into cars and tuning but do not want a small car like the IS and want to drive a more status symbol car.

Oh well, we'll see...I came, I saw and I've told...

 

[s0yb0mb]

Are you kidding? For starters, the cars aren't even in the same class, price range, nor target buyer. The gs400 and I300/405(?) will follow their own distinct evolutions, and even though they both might become serious competition for the BMW M-series, will maintain their own mutually exclusive existances. My 2 cents

Originally posted by brad:
So my question is how will Lexus separate the G4 from the I4? Turbocharging? No way. Supercharging? Doubtful. As soon as I see designs for a M5 competitor in the G line I'll believe it.

------------------
~soybomb~

 

[ckolsen]

You could be right about a V8 IS, I just think it doesn't make sense to make the car more front-heavy, it steers it away from it's mission - RWD compact sports sedan. It's like VW putting the W8 in the Golf (next gen, not this one) - it'll steer like a canoe with 350 lb offensive lineman at the bow.

Originally posted by Jebzter:
My Marketingn thoughts exactly...I am not too sure how they will market that but imagine the power on that car...yikes!

There could be a market share distinction between GS owners and IS owners whereas the IS caters to a more young sophisticated crowd who are still into tuning.

The GS could be segmented as the other market share, much older, into cars and tuning but do not want a small car like the IS and want to drive a more status symbol car.

Oh well, we'll see...I came, I saw and I've told...

 

[TEG]

I agree - I think the car is getting pretty nose heavy as it is.

Although - the bigger v8 might not be _that_ much heavier than the 3.0 i6 since the v8 is aluminum block.

My personal view is that we will never see a v8 in this chassis - but I could be proven wrong...

 

[4yoazz]

IMO, if I were Lexus marketing guys, I would remove the GS430 from my fleet and concentrate on the IS405 if what jebzster says is correct. I say this because the GS400/430 has only had sales of 5,111 units through October and its number one competitor BMW has only had sales of 5,031 units through October. Compare this to 21,423 units for the 528/530I and 18,336 units for the GS300 and these figures tell me that the older people that can afford these prices don't car about speed because they're more mature than that. Now by deleting the GS400 you can concentrate exclusively on the IS405 and IS330. This is where you'd come off like the mob. The IS405 with optional manual 6 speed, 300+ hp, 0-60 in low to mid 5's, nav system and all the other standard features people were looking for. Think about it, you still have the GS300 which is a good seller for you in that mid size luxury segment. Then with this car, if fully loaded at 42K, you have close to M3 acceleration at 330I prices. You'll make a killing because you'll pick up sales from the people who wanted the M3 but couldn't afford it. Then your IS300 with 2002 estimated improvements with maybe a 260 hp engine hitting the segment it's already hitting. I think you'd boost sales dramatically. What do you guys think?

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[Jebzter]

4yoazz...very good assumptions indeed...you maybe correct...

Albeit, I would still keep a GS with the Lexus fleet as the "empire" will need a mid-size Luxury sedan.

We'll just have to wait and see...maybe in 2003, I'll trade-in my 01 IS300 or the IS wagon!

 

[4yoazz]

I know the the IS wagon would sell at least 50K units!!!!! ha!ha!ha!

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[Daniel]

4yoazz, I don't think getting rid of GS430 will be a good idea at all. You need a car to compete directly with the 540, reason being you cannot build a reputation by beating the lowest class of BMW. Remember, Lexus is a luxury car brand, not a sports car brand. The market for the IS405 or whatever it maybe is not that big at all, probably close to that of the current GS430 sell.
Also, I really don't think a V8 IS will hurt the sales of the GS430 reason being the two cars are totally different. Their power rating and straight line acceleration maybe close, but the level of comfort and optional equipment are totally different. I will bet you that 3/4 of the GS430 buyer will not buy a IS405, because it is not a luxury cruiser.
Anyway, if Lexus ever want to build a M3 fighter, a V8 IS will not be a good idea because of heavy front. The only way they can have a M3 fighter is to have Yamaha tune the current engine to similar to that they did on the RS version. If they did, it should be able to output around 300hp. Basically you cannot release a M3 fighter when your weight balance is no where near 50/50 because you will just have a hard time keeping up with it in the turns.

 

[4yoazz]

I guess I don't see a point of the GS430 trying to compete with the 540. Why? Combined they've only sold 10K units. If you have the GS300 which is a much better seller, why not direct your energies towards making that better for the consumers? Also, I'm not saying that the IS405 would compete with the GS430. I'm saying for a segment that you don't have a lot of buyers in to begin with, why waste time building it. The numbers show that obviously, once people get older they're not still worrying about who had the fastest car unless they are in mid life crisis.

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[Daniel]

Well, they can make more money with the more expensive cars, that just how most things work. Also, the people interested in a M3
competitors are just not that great.
The only time I see Lexus stop selling GS430 is if 540 production is stopped, which everyone know will never happen. People want comfort and power and some decent handling, and these two are the cars for them.

[This message has been edited by Daniel (edited December 13, 2000).]

 

[TEG]

Given time, dealers may be able to turn IS300s into M3 competition with TRD aftermarket parts.

TRD plans to have the Supercharger kit out in about 10 months. Maybe they can give us over 300hp with a few upgrades.

A v8 is not the only way to keep up with the new 333hp BMW i6. Look at the new AMG C32 - They plan to keep up by using a supercharger too.

 

[Daniel]

I think it is possible to match the straight line performance of the E46 M3 if TRD/L-Tunes does have a good supercharger kit combined with exhaust and intake. However, I think it may take more than just a few aftermarket part to match the handling performance of the M3. It is possible, but difficult. I still don't think it is wise for Lexus to challenge the M's yet. Once they have the market of the 3-series and the 5 series, then they can consider making a M fighter.

 

[IS-F-I-Found]

Great discussions guys,

Still wondering,

whether anyone knows the scoop on What Lexus will show of at the Auto shows next month. Will we see the 2002 manual IS3? I don't see why we wouldn't see some version of the manual. Maybe they'll just show as the old IS200.