Lexus IS Forum - Reply to Topic
Thread: Car insurance at racing events 101 Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Lexus IS Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. If your address is invalid, you will likely lose access to the site.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-02-2011 02:15 AM
Baker901 Nice thread..
01-01-2011 11:17 PM
MrGregski ^ Most likely THE best simple explanation I've seen
01-01-2011 10:52 PM
Justin.b
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7No View Post
Insurance underwriters don't want us to drive fast. They think everyone should walk (unless you're a fat desk-bound underwriter, of course).
No. They absolutely want you to drive fast. They also absolutely want you to get caught driving fast on public roads. As long as you don't crash, you're not going to get dropped for speeding tickets. Insurers LOVE them. They get to charge you more, and don't have to pay out a cent.

If you get it out of your system at the track, you're probably less likely to do it on the street and get higher insurance rates because of it.

-Justin
01-01-2011 02:41 PM
7No
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexussupra View Post
I'm thinking that street racing may be what they want us to do. I think that its ridiculous that they'd drop you if you question them about performance school. Why not allow us to drive our cars fast in a controlled environment?
Insurance underwriters don't want us to drive fast. They think everyone should walk (unless you're a fat desk-bound underwriter, of course).
01-01-2011 02:10 PM
lexussupra I'm thinking that street racing may be what they want us to do. I think that its ridiculous that they'd drop you if you question them about performance school. Why not allow us to drive our cars fast in a controlled environment?
01-01-2011 01:06 PM
Justin.b Another thing to be aware of is that some manufacturers have canceled warranty coverage for people who have tracked or even autoxed their cars. Mitsubishi USA had someone searching the internet for autox results and if they could match the name on the results to a car in their database, they cancelled the warranty.

Considering that autoxes are held in parking lots that are a lot less dangerous than the average mall parking lot, and that the speeds never reach the speeds those cars were designed to achieve on the highway, you have to just say 'WTF?'.

In any case, people should be avoiding Geico anyway. Geico is the company that first put laser guns in the hands of police. Their goal, of course, was to maximize your premium / penalties for an act (speeding) that costs the insurance companies nothing.

-Justin
01-01-2011 01:03 PM
7No So even if you get track day insurance, you can still be dropped by your regular insurance if they find out and even though you wouldn't make a claim with them for a track incident, they probably would drop you because of the "potential" for a claim.

Doesn't this encourage track-like driving on regular roads?
01-01-2011 11:59 AM
Jerm__ Pretty interesting read. I already knew this though!
12-29-2010 01:47 PM
leonard_is300 I found this out this past summer. A Friend of mine was at a track day at Road America with his Z06 and lost it going into turn 5 and hit the outside wall in going into turn 5. The insurance company found out and droped him and everything he had with them. Now he is left with a Corvette payment and a really heavy paper weight. My car will never see the track for this reason.
02-03-2010 03:24 PM
QuoteWarz Insurance Yes, there are several carriers we have that specialize in coverage for track events. So you can have your regular insurance policy for the streets and then get special coverage when you go to the track.
12-22-2009 04:44 AM
Feffman We have specific coverage while on a race track for our car with WSIB Insurance (www.WSIBInsurance.com). COntact Kraig Hopkins at WSIB. He'll help you.

Mark Pfeffer
www.MVPTrackTime.com
11-25-2009 02:26 PM
Oddrob
Its more than just not covered...

Just as an FYI to those of you who might want to hit the track on a bright sunny weekend, be prepared to cover yourself and hide your identity.
A couple years ago I received a letter in the mail from my then insurer -Geico.
Out of the blue they decided I was unfit to insure. Why you ask? Because I raced my Talon at MIR! Yes, they had their spy's out catching people going down the track and taking pictures. Now mind you, I knew full well I would not be covered in the event of an accident at the track, nor would I try to pass it off if something did happen. This was a sanctioned event, I pass all the safety regs, I'm not some kid out street racing here.
So they elected to drop my policy. I said I would pull the Talon from the policy, too late, all dropped. Mine, my wife's, all our cars suddenly uninsured. One more piece of fun knowledge, do you know how hard it is to get insurance once another company drops you? Most won't even bother to quote you.
So, in the end, if you race your street car, when you get to the track pull off your license plates and cover your VIN in the windshield. And to H^%$ with the gecko!
10-21-2008 05:47 AM
jruhi4
Car insurance at racing events 101

My.IS members that are avid racers, be it as autocrossers or at track events, surely know this, but your car insurance will not cover you if you have a mishap at one of these events, and this New York Times article spells it all out quite well:

Car Insurance May Not Cover You at the Track
By ROY FURCHGOTT



IT’S no secret that insurance companies don’t like the people they cover to drive fast. So it shouldn’t be a surprise that the industry has been removing a policy loophole that insured drivers on racetracks.

That has left weekend warriors uninsured if they participate in track days or attend high-performance driving schools. Jerry Kunzman, executive director of the National Auto Sport Association, said that participation at its track events had jumped fivefold since 2003 and that many of those drivers had no idea they were not covered..

“Maybe 25 or 30 percent have done the research, the middle third just assumes they are covered, and the top third just don’t have a clue,” he said.

What’s happened is that many insurers have redefined the term “racing.” Policies have long had exclusions for racing, but it was defined as a “timed event.”

High-performance driver education neatly avoided that definition. Although cars may take laps at top speed, they aren’t timed.

At many schools, including those held by the Porsche Club of America and the BMW Car Club of America, students are required to attend classroom sessions. On the track, drivers get one-on-one tutoring from an instructor under controlled conditions. The cars are generally sent around the track in small groups with passing limited to straightaways — and only when the driver being passed signals that doing so is all right. So because these runs were not timed, many drivers were covered by their normal automobile policies.

That loophole did not escape the attention of insurers — some clubs practically taunted them in their newsletters. “There was a period of time when clubs were openly flouting this. ‘Take driver’s education and your insurance will cover you. Drive your car the way it was meant to be driven,’” said McKeel Hagerty, chief executive of the Hagerty Insurance Agency, an automotive specialty insurer.

So the industry began to add a new exclusion to its policies in the late 1990s, with most companies adding it within the last few years. Instead of trying to define racing, policies exclude damage at any location that could accommodate racing, timed or not. That eliminated coverage during high-performance driving schools and track days.

Chris Soignier of Austin, Tex., will not be taking his Porsche Cayman to the track, which he had done with his previous cars. When he read his renewal notice from Progressive Insurance last November, he found that the Cayman was not covered on the track.

“I don’t feel like I’m that much at risk, but the magnitude of the loss is too great for me to be comfortable,” he said.

Not all drivers got word of the change, or, like Mr. Soignier, read their new policy. Also, because insurance is regulated by the state, exemptions in Michigan, for example, may differ from those in California.

To make matters worse, asking insurers to clarify coverage could result in a nasty surprise. Mike Barr, a dentist from Palm Beach, Fla., called the insurer USAA to see if his policy covered his Subaru WRX STi on the track.

“Some months later I got a letter from USAA saying they were going to discontinue coverage,” he said.” “They dropped me because I asked about” performance driving schools. “They confirmed it verbally when I called to inquire further.” A USAA spokesman said Dr. Barr was canceled for “several reasons,” but would not elaborate.

Some drivers reduce their exposure by getting an inexpensive track car. As an insurance underwriter for Chubb insurance in Whitehouse Station, N.J., you’d think Eugene Lim would be averse to risk, and he is. But he is also a driving aficionado who is qualified as a high-performance driving instructor. After 40 track days in his Acura NSX, Mr. Lim discovered he was uninsured on the track. So he bought what is essentially a disposable car. “When I got really serious, I bought a turbo Miata. Six thousand dollars would still hurt, but it’s not my NSX,” which was worth about $45,000.

Such a growing market would seem to be an opportunity — and it is. Specialty insurers have tried offering high-performance-school insurance.

“It was a difficult program,” said Laura Bergan, vice president for marketing at American Collectors Insurance. “Difficult as in, we were paying a lot of claims.” American phased out its performance-school coverage last year.

American, like other insurers who have tried the insurance, ran into a series of hurdles. To attract a pool of clients and spread risk, the policies were priced low — an average of $500 to $750 a year, Ms. Bergan said. The number of claims wasn’t a problem, but the cost of the claims was. “Most of the claims were total losses,” she said.

Other companies tried higher pricing, but found few takers.

Cost is not the only barrier. Many drivers don’t think they’ll crash, and unlike regular car insurance, track insurance is not mandated by states. Drivers often confuse track insurance provided by clubs, which in most cases covers only liability and injury, with collision insurance.

The growing market still attracts new insurers. Laura Hauenstein, president of the WSIB Insurance Agency of Jackson, Mich., which specializes in motorsports coverage, was initially against offering performance-school insurance. She changed her mind three years ago when WSIB found a way to streamline the underwriting process.

“I would say we had 100, the first year or two, but this year we put ads in Porsche Panorama,” she said. “My numbers might be off — it could be 500.”

The WSIB premium is 3 percent of the car’s value. The deductible is $2,500, or 4 percent of the car’s value, whichever is greater. So an experienced driver on an approved track with a $100,000 Porsche 911 Carrera S would pay $3,000 to cover 10 events in one year, with a deductible of $4,000. Other companies, like K & K Insurance Group of Fort Wayne, Ind., and Motorsports Insurance Services of Los Angeles, have begun to offer the insurance, but use a more complex formula to price it.

Gene Cottingham, former chief financial officer of Champ Car World Series, which held open-wheel races, knows what track accidents can cost. So he insured his modified 2006 Mustang GT pace car for $40,000. The $1,200 premium seemed high at first, but “when you spread that cost over five to six weekends, it’s really not that much money,” he said.

“The purpose of insurance for me,” he added, “is peace of mind.”

The New York Times > Log In

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome