18x10 up front with overfenders? spacer/offset/spindle issues - Lexus IS Forum
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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18x10 up front with overfenders? spacer/offset/spindle issues

Recently installed Monster Service front and rear fender flares and had to get a wider set of wheels. Love the way the car looks now, but it feels a bit unsafe after 80mph. Feeling like one wrong jerk of the wheel and I could spin out or something. I'm sure the geometry of the car is screwed up or something and I may have gone with the wrong offsets. Also, the car is aligned and has been checked out at two shops that claim I'm all good and they say the car feels different because of the wider tires searching for grip on the highway?... But they haven't driven the car on the freeway where it feels off somehow. Another issue arrises when braking hard, the wheel tends to start jerking to the left, also I'm feeling steering wheel vibrations/shaking after 80mph. It just feels like I'm fighting with the car to stay straight on the road after 80mph.

Is this most likely a spacer issue? I'd rather not run spacers up front, I've heard very mixed reviews and have never run spacers in the past. Can an 18x10 or 18x10.5 work up front with a different offset instead of running spacers? Curious if any other widebody peeps can share their specs with me or what I'm seemingly doing wrong

Previously up front I was running 18x9.5+15 which felt great, before switching to 18x10+38. Switched sizes to fill out the flare without realizing an 18x10 would hit the spindle, thus the spacer had to come into play to be able to drive. Should I just switch back to 9.5+15 up front, that would mean buying another pair of wheels? Thanks for any advice

F: 18x10+38 255/35/18 w/ H&R 25mm hub spacers
R: 18x10+15 255/35/18
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02 GGP 5spd - BC BR Coilovers, Dezod Green Headers, Stoptech SS Brake Lines, Hawk HP pads, Monster Service +40mm Front Fender Flares, Monster Service +30mm Rear Fender Flares, Fiber Fab Ducktail, Eibach Front/Rear Sways, Sport Design Headlights, Enkei Rpf1 F: 18x9.5+15 Federal 225/40/18 R: 18x10.5 +15 Toyo Proxes HP R-255/35/18

Last edited by dhaney85; 10-28-2018 at 02:04 AM.
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 10:45 PM
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There's this thing called "scrub radius". It's the distance from the center of the tire contact patch to the center of the pivot point of the suspension. If your tires contact patch is moved away from the center of the center of the suspension pivot, that distance, causes the tires to act like levers on the suspension. Meaning the forces applied to the suspension of the wheels hitting things goes up.

I'm wondering if you've moved the contact patch of the tire a good distance outboard from the old pivot point?

What kind of spacers are you using? Solid spacers with extended studs or those shitty spacers that have built in studs? I ran 20mm and 25mm solid spacers on my BMW but I used extended studs and hub-centric spacers. They worked perfectly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrub_radius

Quote:
The greater the scrub radius (positive or negative), the greater the steering effort and the more road shock and pivot binding that takes place. When the vehicle has been modified with offset wheels, larger tires, height adjustments and side to side camber differences, the scrub radius will be changed and the handling and stability of the vehicle will be affected.
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-25-2018, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ek9B18 View Post
There's this thing called "scrub radius". It's the distance from the center of the tire contact patch to the center of the pivot point of the suspension. If your tires contact patch is moved away from the center of the center of the suspension pivot, that distance, causes the tires to act like levers on the suspension. Meaning the forces applied to the suspension of the wheels hitting things goes up.

I'm wondering if you've moved the contact patch of the tire a good distance outboard from the old pivot point?

What kind of spacers are you using? Solid spacers with extended studs or those shitty spacers that have built in studs? I ran 20mm and 25mm solid spacers on my BMW but I used extended studs and hub-centric spacers. They worked perfectly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrub_radius
Hey thanks for the reply - I'm using H&R bolt on hub centric spacers with extended lugs. I should mention these spacers are what the shop thats been doing some work on my car had on hand, so I can't exactly 100% know if these weren't somehow warped or defective before they put them on my car. It's certainly possible the scrub radius has been altered... Could too large of tire sizes come into play on these issues as well?

02 GGP 5spd - BC BR Coilovers, Dezod Green Headers, Stoptech SS Brake Lines, Hawk HP pads, Monster Service +40mm Front Fender Flares, Monster Service +30mm Rear Fender Flares, Fiber Fab Ducktail, Eibach Front/Rear Sways, Sport Design Headlights, Enkei Rpf1 F: 18x9.5+15 Federal 225/40/18 R: 18x10.5 +15 Toyo Proxes HP R-255/35/18

Last edited by dhaney85; 10-25-2018 at 12:40 AM.
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-25-2018, 07:10 PM
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Is it possible to simply put the old wheels back on (the setup that worked well with no issues) just to see if it still feels good? IDK what is going on here, but I'm curious
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-25-2018, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TobiasSing View Post
Is it possible to simply put the old wheels back on (the setup that worked well with no issues) just to see if it still feels good? IDK what is going on here, but I'm curious
I wish, but not possible. Traded the 9.5's for the 10.5's :/
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-27-2018, 11:53 PM
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What EK said, I'm facing the same issue due to 20mm spacer (no not shitty ones) which I fitted to clear the IS350 brakes on OEM 17" wheels! now I have to reconsider another set of wheels with proper design and offset, face-palm!
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-28-2018, 01:29 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Arzon View Post
What EK said, I'm facing the same issue due to 20mm spacer (no not shitty ones) which I fitted to clear the IS350 brakes on OEM 17" wheels! now I have to reconsider another set of wheels with proper design and offset, face-palm!
I'm in the same boat so frustrating! Its really starting to dawn on me that when you change/alter one thing you're bound to have to fix another to match. Pretty sure I just have the wrong offsets and need some suspension refreshing up front.

I'm also thinking it could be one of these issues for mine or maybe both of us!

Steering Rack Bushing

Inner and Outer Tie Rod Ends

Upper and Lower Control Arm Bushings

Upper and Lower Ball Joints

02 GGP 5spd - BC BR Coilovers, Dezod Green Headers, Stoptech SS Brake Lines, Hawk HP pads, Monster Service +40mm Front Fender Flares, Monster Service +30mm Rear Fender Flares, Fiber Fab Ducktail, Eibach Front/Rear Sways, Sport Design Headlights, Enkei Rpf1 F: 18x9.5+15 Federal 225/40/18 R: 18x10.5 +15 Toyo Proxes HP R-255/35/18

Last edited by dhaney85; 10-28-2018 at 05:30 PM.
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-28-2018, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dhaney85 View Post
I'm in the same boat so frustrating! Its really starting to dawn on me that when you change/alter one thing you're bound to have to fix another to match. Pretty sure I just have the wrong offsets and need some suspension refreshing up front.

I'm also thinking it could be one of these issues for mine or maybe both of us!

Steering Rack Bushing

Inner and Outer Tie Rod Ends

Upper and Lower Control Arm Bushings

Upper and Lower Ball Joints
I almost changed every suspension component, so I'm pretty sure it's due to spacer, to counter that I have to "tuck" the wheels patch center back inward
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 08:48 AM
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For the OP dhaney, the Enkei RP01 wheels are probably not the same hub center as a Lexus which is 60.1mm so you'll need hub centric rings as well that go on top of the hub-centric spacers. You'll definitely notice the vibration at around 60 mph.

I have some shitty eBay bolt on spacers but at least they're hub-centric, that go with my stock IS250 wheels (so my wheels are spaced out 25mm but everything is tight to the bore of the hub).

Edit: Now that I read your original post again it sounds like No. 2 bushings rather than a wheel issue. The huge wheels are just making the bushing problem worse. I had the same problem with my bushings on the No. 2 arm (with IS250 wheels and 15mm bolt on spacers), it felt like I was braking with warped rotors when I did anything but have my foot on the gas. I changed out the bushings on the No. 2 arm and haven't had an issue since.

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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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Hey guys thanks for all of your input, had the car up on the lift today. Figured out my ebay reman rack and pinion has gone bad after only three months, no wonder it was so affordable on ebay at $100. Also the rack bushings are bad and inner and outer tie rods. Having it all fixed today. Keeping my fingers crossed this solves the steering issues.

Regarding my spacers and wheels up front: If everything feels okay after I get the new steering rack, rack bushings and tie rods, that I can hold off for a bit on getting a different offset wheel up front? I don't want to think about getting a new set of front wheels $$$ but is my current wheel/spacer setup going to kill the new rack super quickly?


I'm thinking about going back to a 9.5+15 up front because I wasn't having any spindle/knuckle hitting, and didn't need to run a spacer. Also could use a small spacer just to fill out the overfender a bit. Or is there an 18x10 with an offset that doesn't hit the knuckle? Maybe an 18x10+15 or +12?

Thanks for all your help will update when I pick the car up
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02 GGP 5spd - BC BR Coilovers, Dezod Green Headers, Stoptech SS Brake Lines, Hawk HP pads, Monster Service +40mm Front Fender Flares, Monster Service +30mm Rear Fender Flares, Fiber Fab Ducktail, Eibach Front/Rear Sways, Sport Design Headlights, Enkei Rpf1 F: 18x9.5+15 Federal 225/40/18 R: 18x10.5 +15 Toyo Proxes HP R-255/35/18
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Piggity View Post
For the OP dhaney, the Enkei RP01 wheels are probably not the same hub center as a Lexus which is 60.1mm so you'll need hub centric rings as well that go on top of the hub-centric spacers. You'll definitely notice the vibration at around 60 mph.

I have some shitty eBay bolt on spacers but at least they're hub-centric, that go with my stock IS250 wheels (so my wheels are spaced out 25mm but everything is tight to the bore of the hub).

Edit: Now that I read your original post again it sounds like No. 2 bushings rather than a wheel issue. The huge wheels are just making the bushing problem worse. I had the same problem with my bushings on the No. 2 arm (with IS250 wheels and 15mm bolt on spacers), it felt like I was braking with warped rotors when I did anything but have my foot on the gas. I changed out the bushings on the No. 2 arm and haven't had an issue since.
Looks like I had hub centric rings in back but not up front. Good call having that sorted as well. This close up of the rear rotor really makes me want new rotors asap lol
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02 GGP 5spd - BC BR Coilovers, Dezod Green Headers, Stoptech SS Brake Lines, Hawk HP pads, Monster Service +40mm Front Fender Flares, Monster Service +30mm Rear Fender Flares, Fiber Fab Ducktail, Eibach Front/Rear Sways, Sport Design Headlights, Enkei Rpf1 F: 18x9.5+15 Federal 225/40/18 R: 18x10.5 +15 Toyo Proxes HP R-255/35/18
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 01:06 PM
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Those bolt on spacers aren't hubcentric, so I'd get some that are. You can get some from Ichiba (sp?) or eBay, H&R may not have them for our cars in the correct hub bore....then put on those hubcentric rings after to center the wheel perfectly with the hub.

Obviously the best way to do it is to have the correct fitting wheels.

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 02:14 PM
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Yikes, yeah hubcentric spacers/wheels is an absolute must. Plus all that broken/worn stuff didn't help either!
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Piggity View Post
Those bolt on spacers aren't hubcentric, so I'd get some that are. You can get some from Ichiba (sp?) or eBay, H&R may not have them for our cars in the correct hub bore....then put on those hubcentric rings after to center the wheel perfectly with the hub.

Obviously the best way to do it is to have the correct fitting wheels.
Ordered 9.5+15 for the front to do away with these huge spacers, as they are either messing up my scrub radius, making driving sketchy becuase of how big they are, and putting alot of extra stress on suspension parts. I like how the current wheels look but its not worth it to feel scared of the wheels falling off or the damage its doing to the rest of the car. If the 9.5's dont fill out the overfenders enough its cool/safe to run 5mm to 8mm spacers correct, just not as big as these 25?

Are these current spacers super unsafe to be driving with while I wait for new wheels to arrive in a week? The shop I WAS using in San Diego installed these and assured me they were hubcentric and all was good.

02 GGP 5spd - BC BR Coilovers, Dezod Green Headers, Stoptech SS Brake Lines, Hawk HP pads, Monster Service +40mm Front Fender Flares, Monster Service +30mm Rear Fender Flares, Fiber Fab Ducktail, Eibach Front/Rear Sways, Sport Design Headlights, Enkei Rpf1 F: 18x9.5+15 Federal 225/40/18 R: 18x10.5 +15 Toyo Proxes HP R-255/35/18

Last edited by dhaney85; 10-31-2018 at 08:31 AM.
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-05-2018, 08:09 AM
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It's safe if everything is torqued down properly, it's just the vibrations you get at ~60mph is not fun. The spacers should be fine to use as long as you have enough stud for the lug nuts to thread onto. Make sure you get hubcentric spacers too.

And spacers or huge low offset wheels do the exact same thing, they add more weight further out off the hub so your wheel bearing do not last as long.

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