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post #31 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-12-2013, 05:57 AM
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Hey Jason, car battery died on me yesterday(started noticing weak cranks 3 days prior). I jumped it off and was reading 13.54V running, drove home with no issues, when I left it alone for about 2 hrs and came back to check it with the car off and the battery was at 10.28V which leads me to believe its the battery since the voltage drain was unusually quick and possibly a cell went bad. When I get off work today I will check ground connections and try to do alternator checks as well. That battery had been in the car since before I purchased it 3 years ago so it maybe time for a replacement.

I called around to a few dealerships to get a price quote on a battery since the TrueStart has a 84 month warranty for the same price as a Duralast and I was wondering is the 28800 part # for Lexus superceded by Toyota part # 00544-24060-575 (which is the same battery for a Scion TC oddly enough) since the 28800 isn't sold by the dealer anymore for Group 24?

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post #32 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-12-2013, 06:16 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JimboSlyce View Post
Hey Jason, car battery died on me yesterday(started noticing weak cranks 3 days prior). I jumped it off and was reading 13.54V running, drove home with no issues, when I left it alone for about 2 hrs and came back to check it with the car off and the battery was at 10.28V which leads me to believe its the battery since the voltage drain was unusually quick and possibly a cell went bad. When I get off work today I will check ground connections and try to do alternator checks as well. That battery had been in the car since before I purchased it 3 years ago so it maybe time for a replacement.

I called around to a few dealerships to get a price quote on a battery since the TrueStart has a 84 month warranty for the same price as a Duralast and I was wondering is the 28800 part # for Lexus superceded by Toyota part # 00544-24060-575 (which is the same battery for a Scion TC oddly enough) since the 28800 isn't sold by the dealer anymore for Group 24?
Hey Jim, it sounds like your charging system is doing it's job and either you have a battery that's near the end of it's life or possibly has an open/shorted cell OR you may have a high car-off parasitic draw. Obviously I would do a free battery check as you mentioned and go from there. If the battery is ok or if you want to verify your car isn't the problem then I'd do the parasitic draw test. I know my battery sits around 12.8vdc off and when the car is running at operating temperature the voltage is about 13.5vdc, so that looks good.

As far as OE battery part numbers, ToyoDIY is telling me the battery has the following PN's for Lexus and 00544-24060-575 is in fact Toyota's updated battery PN(used on actually quite a number of makes and models).
28800 BATTERY
28800-46120 80D26R-MF
28800-54232 80D26R

http://www.toyotapartszone.com/oem/t...24060-575.html
Hope this helps...lemme know how it works out. Hopefully it's just a bad battery, 3-4 years is really not too bad of a lifespan for modern batteries.

Edit; found some good info on various batteries and their applications. The battery you mentioned does have a BCI rating of 24.
http://db.tt/P46fHuXQ(from my dropbox)

'02 IS300 MSM LSD

Last edited by jasonm4; 09-12-2013 at 06:46 AM.
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post #33 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-12-2013, 06:38 AM
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Hope this helps...lemme know how it works out. Hopefully it's just a bad battery, 3-4 years is really not too bad of a lifespan for modern batteries.
Ok thanks man. Will Do!

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post #34 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-12-2013, 07:02 AM Thread Starter
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Ok thanks man. Will Do!
No problem bud, let us know it works out. If your battery tests OK, then I'd do the parasitic draw test on page 1, or you can do the test so you know for sure it's not an additional problem(Harbor Freights $5 meter works just fine in case you don't have one). Mine reads about 37mA after 5 minutes.

'02 IS300 MSM LSD
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post #35 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-13-2013, 11:43 AM
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No problem bud, let us know it works out. If your battery tests OK, then I'd do the parasitic draw test on page 1, or you can do the test so you know for sure it's not an additional problem(Harbor Freights $5 meter works just fine in case you don't have one). Mine reads about 37mA after 5 minutes.

Well that Duralast Gold that was in the car was manufactured 9/08 so that battery had done its job. 5 years is about right. I'm heading to the Toyota Dealer after work to get the TrueStart.

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post #36 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 01:18 PM
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I know this hasn't been updated in over a year. But, I just found this article and have read through this. I'm at work, not in front of the car at the moment. Issue started about 2 months ago, I have a 2001 IS300. The car has always started for me and has never given me grief. So I went to start it in November and the car wouldn't start. It was like the battery was dead. So i bought a new battery and changed it, because the battery in it was old, but the car wouldn't start. I diagnosed the issue and determined it to need a starter(not a tech!!!) I replaced the starter and the car still wouldn't start. So my technician brother determined the positive cable was bad, we replaced it and the car started. I was happy. I was able to restart it multiple times and drive it home. Where I parked it and periodically was able to start it no problem. So on Sunday I went to start it and nothing, no big deal it has sat in the very cold for over 2 weeks approx. I jumped it and it fired right up. I let it run for 20 minutes and shut if off, went to restart it and it wouldn't restart. Any ideas or starting points? Thank you
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post #37 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 02:22 PM
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Sounds like your battery is dead and needs a full charge, either that or you have picked up a slow electrical drain. 20 minutes at idle is not sufficient for putting any serious power in the battery, try a smart charger.
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post #38 of 71 (permalink) Old 03-03-2015, 03:45 PM
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Hi Jason, really found your post about charge/alternator/battery troubleshooting helpful from back in '09
got an 07 is350 which had starting issues and flickering and intermittent power (electrical) outings. Changed battery to new and after a few days same issues started occurring.
the cold sitting car reading fluctuates between 12.5 to 13.2, when started up it fluctuates as well and lights flicker. I kept the meter on the terminals and ran another wire from one of the grounds to the battery terminal where the readings jump to a proper 13.8. Wonder if you had any insights of what could be causing this and any remedies?

Best,
Paul
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post #39 of 71 (permalink) Old 03-04-2015, 07:11 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Jason, really found your post about charge/alternator/battery troubleshooting helpful from back in '09
got an 07 is350 which had starting issues and flickering and intermittent power (electrical) outings. Changed battery to new and after a few days same issues started occurring.
the cold sitting car reading fluctuates between 12.5 to 13.2, when started up it fluctuates as well and lights flicker. I kept the meter on the terminals and ran another wire from one of the grounds to the battery terminal where the readings jump to a proper 13.8. Wonder if you had any insights of what could be causing this and any remedies?

Best,
Paul
It sounds like you have an issue with your main ground cable. Not sure about the second gen, but on the IS300 the battery negative grounds to the body and then to the engine block. If you have an ohmmeter, I'd see what resistance you have from the negative battery post to the body and engine block(should be less than 1 ohm). It could also be your negative battery terminal connector if you placed the jumper on the actual battery negative post verses where the negative wire bolts up to the battery terminal. I wonder if it's just a loose/corroded battery terminal, but that depends on where you physically placed your ground jumper.

'02 IS300 MSM LSD
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post #40 of 71 (permalink) Old 03-24-2015, 01:01 PM
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Sure enough it was indeed the negative connector! After a dealer had fiddled with it for two hours and wanted a 'commitment' from me for more hours to take apart the dash I knew these monkeys wouldn't be able to fix anything except a fatter invoice bill. What's worse, the tech said he checked the grounds along the battery!
My pops and I decided to check again and after lifting the battery the negative was completely loose and corrosion made the bolt loose where the connection arced the bolt further loosened the connection.
Easy fix to simply tap in a larger bolt and secure the connection. Car runs like new.
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post #41 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 12:26 PM
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Enclosed in this thread is some detailed instructions on how to test your charging system properly using a handheld digital meter, one that is capable of measuring AC/DC voltage, ohm, and DC amps(capable of 400mA or 10A DC). You can pick up a Digital Volt Meter at any auto store, one capable of doing the job for $20 or so(Harbor Freight's $5 meter is fine too). If you've had battery issues or overall power problems, these tests will help diagnose any problems. ALWAYS TEST YOUR MULTIMETER ON A KNOWN LIVE SOURCE AS A TEST SUCH AS THE BATTERY.

PICTURES ARE INCLUDED AT THE BOTTOM TO SHOW HOW TO TEST(new attachment)

1. BATTERY. the first thing you need to check for is that you have a healthy strong battery. With a fully charged battery the voltage across the terminals should read 12.6V DC or higher with the car off. If the car has sat for a few days the voltage may drop slightly, but should never drop below 12.2V DC. To check, set the meter to Volts DC and put the red meter lead on the + terminal on the battery and the black lead on the - negative terminal. below is % of the battery's charge based on voltage. One last thing to consider is making sure the terminals are clean and tight as the cars electrical system can act strange simply if there is an issue with the connections.

No-Load Test Voltage Percentage(battery's charge % based on voltage tested)

12.60V+(100%) 12.45V(75%) 12.30V(50%) 12.15V(25%)

To check the condition of the battery under a load, put the meter on the battery terminals and have a helper start the car. The voltage should not drop below 9.5 Volts DC while starting.


2. GROUNDING. in order for the car to charge properly, there must be a good ground between your negative battery terminal, body/chassis and the engine block. There should also be good a good ground to the car's body, before the battery negative cable goes to the part of the engine block pictured below, it has a ground lug on it shortly after the battery terminal which also grounds to your body right under the battery tray(battery negative cable grounds the body and block/one cable). To test: using a meter, set the scale to ohm's setting. take the negative wire off of the battery. place one meter terminal on the battery negative wire and place the other lead on a clean metal spot on the engine block. the meter should read 1 ohm or less(continuity). anything higher would indicate the ground connection to the engine block is loose/corroded. always check your meter's accuracy by putting the meter's leads together and verify you have continuity(which may be 1 ohm or less). On the IS300, the ground is bolted behind the passengerside motor mount. Here's a pic of it...remember that a termination lug grounds under the battery tray first then here.



3. ALTERNATOR. There are four tests you can do while the alternator is in the car. The ultimate way to check the status of the alternator is by removing it out of the car and have it bench tested for free at most auto stores, but a handheld digital meter will be able to do most of the same tests. The only other thing a bench test does is a load test, but a clamp-on ampmeter can give you a rough idea of what its putting out(it will not tell you max rated ouput of DC Amps at max RPM). If you do have a battery malfunction indicator then that means there is a loss of running voltage and either the alt is out of the loop or bad. Battery indicator will not tell you if you have a bad battery, only when running voltage has dropped too low(from running off the battery perhaps).

If the alt needs pulled for a bench test or it's KIA, here's a great DIY made by homedepotmade>https://my.is/forums/f221/diy-alternator-swap-435652/

Note: Doing these tests when both the car is cold and at operating temperature is best because the heat will affect the readings. It is a good idea to do this especially for the AC ripple test, DC output, and diode leakage tests. The numbers will be higher because the diodes break down some when they're hot.

--DC VOLTAGE OUTPUT: With a fairly strong battery(12.5VDC+), the alternator has to produce 13.2-14.8 Volts DC to the battery terminals at idle(750RPM). This number will be closer to the lower end of the spec if it is at operating temperature. To check using a meter: set the meter to DC volts and turn on the car. turn on the headlights and A/C blower to high. Put the red meter lead on the + terminal on the battery and black meter lead on the - terminal on the battery. Check it at idle and at 3K RPM. The voltage should be 13.2-14.8 VDC. If it is low at idle but comes within range at 3K RPM, then your battery is weak and needs to be checked for voltage. If the battery is tested ok(12.6+ VDC) and the voltage is below 13.2VDC when the car is running idle, the regulator is bad(bad alternator). if the idle RPM's are below 700, then the regulator may also struggle to put out 13.2VDC or less based on the load(ie.headlights on plus A/C on, etc.).The IS300 should idle at 750 +/-50 RPM. numbers based on FSM.

--AC RIPPLE: alternators essentially produce 3 phase AC current and a six pack diode configuration converts the AC to DC current. Again, a hot or warm engine is best because the diodes can perform weaker when hot. An alternator should never produce more than 500mV or .5V AC under a load. To check you will need to turn the car on, turn on the high beams and heater blower switch on high. Using a meter, set the scale to AC voltage setting. place the red meter lead on the bolted wire connection on the alternator. place the black meter lead on the housing of the alternator or a clean good ground on the engine block. NOTE: Use EXTREME CAUTION as you will be testing near the moving drive belt. The safest way is to use alligator clips and clip them between the meter terminals and the connections you are reading from so you dont have to hold the meter lead tip at the bolted wire on the alternator. As mentioned, at any time the AC voltage exceeds 500mV/.5V, the diodes are bad and the alternator needs replaced.

--DIODE LEAKAGE: the diodes in the alternator prevent current from flowing backwards and only allow it to flow in one direction, thus creating DC current. Diode leakage can kill your battery over time very quickly as it puts an additional draw on the battery when the car is off. It's best to do this test on a hot alternator because diodes leak more when hot. To test using a meter: set the meter to DC amp scale and make sure the meter leads are moved on the meter to where they read current(usually this involves moving the red meter lead to the AC/DC amp plug). with the car off, take the positive wire off of the battery(this is done to avoid a short when taking the bolted + wire off the alternator). Un-bolt the battery cable at the alternator. Connect the positive wire back on onto the battery terminal, making sure the unbolted alternator wire is clear from any ground. put the red meter lead on the bolt connection(where you took the wire off) on the alternator and connect the black meter lead on the alternator wire that you took off. the current reading on the meter should indicate a few miliamps DC, typically should be around 0.5 milliamps or .0005 amps DC. anything more than a few miliamps(3mA/.003A or more) means your diodes are not blocking properly and are draining your battery when the car is off. after your done, take the + wire off the battery and then put the + wire back on the bolted connection. then re-hook the battery up. alternator needs replaced if readings are higher then mentioned as its putting a drain on the battery.

--AMPERAGE OUTPUT: if you have a clamp-on DC amp meter, then you can check the output of the alternator while the car's electrical system has a load and no load. set the clamp on meter to DC amps and start the car with everything else off except the engine. clamp the positive bolted wire coming off the alternator, USING EXTREME CAUTION as the drive belt is close. with just the engine running, the amps should be less than 10 AMPS DC. next, turn on the high beams and heater blower switch on high. take another reading for a few seconds. The reading should be 30 AMPS or more. Now these readings can change based on how good the battery's charge is. If the battery voltage is less then 12.6 VDC, the alternator may produce slightly higher readings. Numbers based on FSM.

--3 WIRE ALTERNATOR HARNESS: there are 3 wires that are in a harness that plugs into the alternator. One is a white w/blue stripe that is fed from the 7.5A ALT-S fuse and always has 12 volts to ground when the car is off or on. The red w/blue stripe wire comes off the 10A GUAGE fuse and should have 12 volts to ground when the car ignition is on only(for regulator). The last wire is a signal for the ECM and is a blue w/red stripe wire. On '01 this wire goes straight to E7pin26. On '02+ this wire goes to E6pin15. These connections are essential for the alt to function.

4. PARASITIC CAR-OFF DRAIN: This is the drain on the battery when the car is turned off. The diodes will leak more when the car is hot as mentioned, so a warm engine for testing is best. There is always a slight drain for the radio memory and ECU memory. Stock drain should be less than 70mA, but more on the order of 35mA, after 5 minutes. If it is higher than 70mA, it will kill your battery in less than a week if the car sits, or longer, depending on the draw. To check with a meter, first make sure that the car is off, all lights are off, all doors are closed, and everything is turned off. This is important as you risk blowing your meter's fuse if something is on. Set your meter to read DC amps(10A setting). Take the negative wire off of the battery. Put the red meter lead on the negative battery wire and the black meter lead on the negative post on the battery. Make sure not to remove the leads off of the connections for 5 minutes, if you lose contact then you will have to do it over again. Alligator clips may help so you dont have to hold them in place or risk losing a connection while waiting for the reading. watching the meter, you will notice that the meter will start around 300mA/.3A(or slightly higher) and after the ECU and modules go to sleep(about 3 minutes), the amp reading will drop to the constant parasitic draw. After 5 minutes if the amps still exceed 70mA or more, then you will have to start troubleshooting by pulling fuses and checking the load side of all of the fuses to the line side to find out why/where the draw is so high. (NOTE:If there is a direct short and the fuse is alredy blown, then you risk blowing the internal meter fuse or cause damage/injury)
CAUTION: MAKE SURE THE METER IS RATED TO TEST AT LEAST 400mA/.4A OR HIGHER. (most meters have a mA scale and a 10A scale. the 10A scale would be the better of the two settings to use).

CAUTION: NEVER REMOVE ANY OF THE BATTERY TERMINALS WHILE THE CAR IS RUNNING. DOING THIS CAN INSTANTLY KILL THE ALTERNATOR. THE BATTERY ACTS AS A BUFFER AND FILTERS OUT ANY SPIKES FROM THE REGULATOR, SO WITHOUT THE BATTERY, THE REGULATOR CAN BE DAMAGED!!!


Hopefully this thread will help those who have charging system/battery issues and dont understand the variables that can effect it. using a meter can be a alot easier than spending a diagnostic fee.
hey i lost the bolt that grounds the battery to the engine block lol. i guess i misplaced it. anyways do you know which bolt to get at ace hardware as a replacement?

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post #42 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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hey i lost the bolt that grounds the battery to the engine block lol. i guess i misplaced it. anyways do you know which bolt to get at ace hardware as a replacement?
Well it actually mounts to a bracket and the bracket mounts to the block. I believe it is a 10mm or 12mm bolt but I'm sure to be honest. I would just grab several metric bolts about 1" long.

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post #43 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 02:07 PM
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Well it actually mounts to a bracket and the bracket mounts to the block. I believe it is a 10mm or 12mm bolt but I'm sure to be honest. I would just grab several metric bolts about 1" long.
i went to home depot and bought a M10-1.25 all they had were the 20mm length ones so i just put a washer under it to take some slack out and seams to be just fine.

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post #44 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-22-2015, 01:28 AM
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HI Jasonm4,
Thanks for your detailed information. Would you happen to know if new battery could cause 150 amp alternator fuse to blow as now it appears to have crack in middle of just that fuse on the fusible block?
Thanks for reading this and any help you can give me. My 250 IS sits stranded in my own garage now with second new battery that doesn't make it start! It was working fine until three days ago when it had the first instance of not starting but since battery was original from 2007, I thought it needed replacement. But why won't car start now even with new battery?
Any comments you have to share are greatly appreciated.
Susan
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post #45 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-22-2015, 02:24 AM Thread Starter
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HI Jasonm4,
Thanks for your detailed information. Would you happen to know if new battery could cause 150 amp alternator fuse to blow as now it appears to have crack in middle of just that fuse on the fusible block?
Thanks for reading this and any help you can give me. My 250 IS sits stranded in my own garage now with second new battery that doesn't make it start! It was working fine until three days ago when it had the first instance of not starting but since battery was original from 2007, I thought it needed replacement. But why won't car start now even with new battery?
Any comments you have to share are greatly appreciated.
Susan
I'm not sure, usually the alternator fuse only blows when the battery is hooked up backwards by accident. Have you been able to test the fuse to verify it is indeed bad? It could potentially cause starting/running issues if the alt is out of the loop.

'02 IS300 MSM LSD
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