Need to change water pump on a Lexus IS 350 - Page 2 - Lexus IS Forum
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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 12:04 PM
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I haven't looked at the transmission physically,...but the factory has to have a means of filling it,...it may have blanking plugs on the transmission,...not sure haven't looked. Let me give Andy a call at Bullockcity and I'll post what he says,...at least I know he's honest,...not like the dealerships

'06 Tungsten Pearl IS350,...with battle wounds and scars,...almost new.
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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 12:14 PM
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Just called the shop,...they are closed today, but left Andy an email. Will post when I get a response.

'06 Tungsten Pearl IS350,...with battle wounds and scars,...almost new.
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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 05:27 PM
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Theres a special procedure to fill the transmission. But like stated before the World Standard ATF does not require replacing/flushing. The procedure is only if for any reason any fluid is lost you can refill it.
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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clubfoot View Post
I haven't looked at the transmission physically,...but the factory has to have a means of filling it,...it may have blanking plugs on the transmission,...not sure haven't looked. Let me give Andy a call at Bullockcity and I'll post what he says,...at least I know he's honest,...not like the dealerships
Absolute there's a way to fill it.

There's just no way to empty it.

Which is why you can't replace the fluid (or much more than 10% of it anyway, which is about how much you'd get out if you drop the pan entirely)
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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-26-2011, 04:11 PM
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Spoke with Andy on the phone this afternoon and YES the fluid can be changed! Very briefly, there is a drain and they measure the quantity and temperature of the fluid they remove to know how much to put back in. And no, there are no transmission cooler lines to hook up to to do a flush. And no, Lexus does not want users messing around with servicing their transmissions that's why they "sealed" it.

It costs CN$80.00 includes labor and fluid, at $65.00/hr labor rate.

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Last edited by clubfoot; 04-26-2011 at 05:47 PM.
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post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-26-2011, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
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Spoke with Andy on the phone this afternoon and YES the fluid can be changed!

No, it can't. Andy is wrong.

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Very briefly, there is a drain and they measure the quantity and temperature of the fluid they remove to know how much to put back in.
Yes. You get about 10-15% of the total fluid out that way.

The other 85-90% will still be the old fluid that you can't get out.

That's not much of a "change"

I've explained this like 3 times already.

If you'd like I can link you to the TIS documents that tell you the same thing directly from Toyota.


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It costs $80.00 for approximately half hour of labor at $65.00/hr plus fluid.
If you wanna pay $80 to change 10% of your transmission fluid knock yourself out... but don't fool yourself into thinking you're "changing the fluid"... and anyone telling you you are isn't as honest a mechanic as you think.


BTW- there ARE transmission cooler lines. They run from the radiator to a heat exchanger built into the side of the transmission. But they contain coolant, not transmission fluid. That's why you can't use them to flush the transmission.




Actually, just to head off further back and forth, here you go:

Note how little fluid comes out even from dropping the pan entirely, let alone just pulling the plug out of it. The entire system holds about 9 quarts. Draining the pan (what the plug would do) only gets about 1.3 quarts out.
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Last edited by Knightshade; 04-27-2011 at 05:19 AM.
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post #22 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-27-2011, 08:23 AM Thread Starter
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OK i just called bullock city and they told me that it is not possible to flush or exchange all the fluid with new fluid. They say best they can do is exchange 3-4 quarts at best however i think they are even lying about that. When I asked if i was allowed to watch the guy got upset and said if you don't trust us go somewhere else. I don't know how they can even talk about trust when I don't even know them. I said it is not a trust issue I am interested in how it's done and asked if their is a window i can watch out of, he said no. He also continued to say that lexus recommends to exchange some of the transmission fluid every 48000km but I do not see any say of this in my manual.
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post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-27-2011, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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I just called Lexus Dealership and they are saying they can get 5-6 bottles out and put in new fluid for 98 dollars.
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post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-27-2011, 11:06 AM
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I just called Lexus Dealership and they are saying they can get 5-6 bottles out and put in new fluid for 98 dollars.
Did you ask them how, since the folks who built the car say you can't even get that much out removing the torque converter?


At 98 bucks I'm sure they're just doing the same thing the other place is- Opening the plug, letting the 1 or so quarts drain out that you can get that way, and refilling it.

leaving the other 8-ish quarts of old stuff in there.
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post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-27-2011, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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I just called another dealership and they told me they can get out 1.7-1.8 litres out. I am starting to agree with you about all this. I am scared that my tranny will blow or something so how much sense does it make to do the drain and fill 5 times in a row once every month?
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post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-27-2011, 11:36 AM
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Why not try calling Lexus Canada or better yet, see if you can get something in writing.

I'm perplexed by the apparent difference in manuals. IF both cars are built the same in respect of the transmission, one of the manuals is obviously wrong and it looks like that might be the Canadian one.

Sounds like a potential class action lawsuit against Lexus Canada for recommending unnecessary (maybe more importantly - impossible) service.

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post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-28-2011, 12:33 PM
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You cannot drain "all" the fluid out of any automatic transmission UNLESS you strip it down for overhaul or repair because "most" of the fluid is in the torque converter, pump, cooling lines, radiator, valve body, clutch, discs,...etc.
Unless you're willing to disconnect lines, drain the torque convert via its plug, pull the valve body,...you ain't getting nothing "changed".

That's why they came up with flush machines,...I guess.

Maybe, just maybe that's why Lexus/Toyota "sealed" the transmission, because they know that not allot of fluid gets "changed" with a drain pan and a filter change,....so why bother. Just use the best quality fluid they could come up with, keep the trans cool, shift it firm, and it should last the "life" of the car.

This is all from my previous life overhauling Asia Warner transmissions, so hopefully we've advanced,...but I don't believe allot of stuff on the internet, I like to find out myself by asking people who know and I trust.

There was more to my conversation with Andy, but I just wanted to pass on the jist of it. Andy is a Lexus Tech with same access or better to information about our cars and he's honest. He laughed at my question because he knew it was from the forums and misinformation

If you can only drain, a few litres, quarts, etc,...then that is what is changeable, without pulling the transmission apart. IT costs whatever you are willing to pay for it, or do it yourself for free now that you know you can change some of it.

If anyone doesn't feel it worth doing because it's so little fluid then don't,...it's like the synthetic oil change thread,...no different. I follow the manufacture's recommendation for Canada for all my servicing,....give or take

'06 Tungsten Pearl IS350,...with battle wounds and scars,...almost new.

Last edited by clubfoot; 04-28-2011 at 12:43 PM.
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post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-28-2011, 12:38 PM
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HAHAHAHA,...just read the TIS,....guess nothing has changed much over the years,...still need to pull allot of shit to drain a fair bit of fluid and it's still no where near its "capacity"!

'06 Tungsten Pearl IS350,...with battle wounds and scars,...almost new.
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post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-28-2011, 04:39 PM
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You cannot drain "all" the fluid out of any automatic transmission UNLESS you strip it down for overhaul or repair because "most" of the fluid is in the torque converter, pump, cooling lines, radiator, valve body, clutch, discs,...etc.
Unless you're willing to disconnect lines, drain the torque convert via its plug, pull the valve body,...you ain't getting nothing "changed".

That's why they came up with flush machines,...I guess.
That's sorta the point... on older cars you can use a fluid exchange machine to the lines and really change the fluid.

You can't do that here.

Quote:
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This is all from my previous life overhauling Asia Warner transmissions, so hopefully we've advanced,...but I don't believe allot of stuff on the internet, I like to find out myself by asking people who know and I trust.

There was more to my conversation with Andy, but I just wanted to pass on the jist of it. Andy is a Lexus Tech with same access or better to information about our cars and he's honest. He laughed at my question because he knew it was from the forums and misinformation
Andy has access to the same info as what I posted... from TIS.

Really, this has been discussed to death, including by other Lexus techs and plenty of folks who've been working on Toyota and Lexus vehicles for decades. There's a nearly 10 page thread on CL about it, going into more technical detail if you want to read through it.


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If you can only drain, a few litres, quarts, etc,...then that is what is changeable, without pulling the transmission apart. IT costs whatever you are willing to pay for it, or do it yourself for free now that you know you can change some of it.

If anyone doesn't feel it worth doing because it's so little fluid then don't,...it's like the synthetic oil change thread,...no different. I follow the manufacture's recommendation for Canada for all my servicing,....give or take

I'm sort of torn here.

On the one hand I can't blame someone for following the mfg service schedule...

On the other hand the fact that it explicitly states to NOT service the exact same transmission in the manual for the US market (where more than 10 times the number of cars are sold) leaves me somewhat concerned... and thinking the Canadian Lexus dealers somehow got that put in there to be able to charge folks $150 to change 1 quart of fluid out of a 9 quart system.


Personally I think you're more likely to get outside contamination into the system trying to change 10% of the fluid than any benefit you might derive from doing so.
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post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-28-2011, 05:01 PM
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On the other hand the fact that it explicitly states to NOT service the exact same transmission in the manual for the US market (where more than 10 times the number of cars are sold) leaves me somewhat concerned... and thinking the Canadian Lexus dealers somehow got that put in there to be able to charge folks $150 to change 1 quart of fluid out of a 9 quart system.


Personally I think you're more likely to get outside contamination into the system trying to change 10% of the fluid than any benefit you might derive from doing so.
See you hit the nail right on the head right there! I mean except for winter driving,..we don't have anywhere near the number of cars or severity in climate change south of the boarder, or the traffic jams,...yep I agree with you,...could very well have been the Canadian dealerships "needing" to make more cash to cover the costs of operation and profit margins

I've read the discussions in CL,...but we have to go by what is in our manuals to maintain our warranty coverage in Canada,...unfortunately.

And that was another good point,...outside contamination, how many auto mechanics clean an area BEFORE they work in it?! Not that many,...and NOT many DIYs either

I say seal the feffin' thing, forget about it and it will last

'06 Tungsten Pearl IS350,...with battle wounds and scars,...almost new.
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