Harmonic balancer/timing issues - Lexus IS Forum
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Harmonic balancer/timing issues

So my harmonic balancer recently split apart, so I decided to order a fluidampr balancer and install it. However, I've come across a few problems. 1, the holder tool that works on the oem balancer does not work on the fluidampr one, so i cannot torque it to spec. 2. While turning the engine over by hand, i noticed my timing was way off, but all I did was pull the balancer off and put the new one on. Does anyone know what may have caused this issue? And how I can hold the balancer well enough to torque it? Also another thing I'd like to ask is what installers people use, because the kits from autozone wont thread into the hole, so I had to use the bolt for the balancer and threaded it on there in order to push the balancer in.

-Abe
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 07:23 AM
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not sure about the timing.

but people have used an old serpentine belt around the pulley and then a chainwrench to hold the balancer in place

like this:

Last edited by chunktwo; 03-05-2019 at 07:44 AM.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 09:11 AM
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You can prevent the engine from turning by using what I call the "belt-cinch" method.

Cut your old serpentine belt. Get at least 180ļ of wrap around the balancer, route the belt around several accessories (doesn't need to be all of them), and then feed both loose ends of the belt back under the belt on the balancer. The loose ends will need to be fed under the belt on the passenger side of the car...

This way, when you put torque on the balancer bolt to loosen it, the crank will begin to spin counterclockwise a few degrees, sucking the loose ends further under the balancer. Once all the slack is out of the entire length of the belt, the whole thing will seize up solid.

By reversing your belt routing, you can use this method to stop the engine from turning so you can put final torque on your balancer, as well.

DO NOT INCLUDE YOUR TENSIONER in the routing of the belt when using this method!
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 09:15 AM
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Regarding installing/pressing-on the new balancer:

It is bad juju to attempt to just torque the crap out of the crank bolt to try and pull the balancer hub onto the crank. You need a balancer installer tool. My shop-mate has a nice MAC branded set, but it did not have the correct adapter for the 2J.

I bought a new balancer bolt from Toyota, and modified the old bolt to make it into the adapter I needed for the MAC tool. This required me cutting off the head of the bolt, then drilling/tapping a 3/8-24 threaded hole down into the crank bolt. Not too hard.

My balancer is an ATI; it's hub bore was a little too small, so I also had to hone it out ~.0004" for the proper interference fit onto the crank snout.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abe3223 View Post
so I decided to order a fluidampr balancer and install it. However, I've come across a few problems.
Sounds like it would have been better to stick with OEM. Even if you manage to get it on there, I imagine getting it back off again might be even harder
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 02:34 PM
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Usually lock down the flex plate or flywheel with a tool.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiasSing View Post
Sounds like it would have been better to stick with OEM. Even if you manage to get it on there, I imagine getting it back off again might be even harder
A quality aftermarket balancer that is an interference-fit onto the crank will outperform the slip-on OEM balancer. The engine vibrations will be more effectively cancelled, and the engine will run more smoothly.

I've not used a Fluidamper before, as I'm kinda an ATI guy... Not saying anything wrong with Fluidamper, but in racing land I've just had and seen so much success with ATI that I default to them.

Anyway, ATI supplies their balancers with a nominally-sized hub bore. For a balancer to work properly, it is imperative that it "become one" with the crankshaft. To achieve this, the balancer must be a somewhat heavy interference-fit with the crank snout.

Unfortunately, the OEM doesn't grind the crank snout to such a precision, that a precision interference-fit can be achieved if the balancer hub bore is honed to one particular size. What fits one crank perfectly might be too loose or too tight on a different crank. Therefore, ATI hones their hub bore to the smallest "in spec" dimension. It will be correctly sized for some cranks, but too small for others.

You must use a micrometer to measure the crank snout diameter. Then you need to use either telescoping gages + micrometer, or a hole micrometer, or perhaps gage pins to determine the inside diameter of the hub bore. Then calculate the difference between the two. ATI publishes a specification on what the interference oughtta be. Generally between .0008" and .0015".

If your interference is too much, it'll be hell to get it on/off the crank and you risk galling or otherwise damaging something. If too little interference, the balancer will not be fit to the crank as intimately as it needs to be for proper function.

When the interference is set correctly, a balancer installation tool has zero problems pulling the balancer onto the crank, and a balancer removal tool has no problem pulling it off.

All this to say - It's likely Fluidamper has similar install instructions to ATI. Read and follow them.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 05:04 PM
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Some suggest putting the balancer in a bucket of boiling water to heat it up, so it expands enough to slide on the shaft.

Personally i don't see the problem with using a bolt to pull it back on or lightly tapping it on with a soft mallet as long as it goes on square and is easy, but like any other work you need to have the right "feel" when you are doing it. If you are smacking the crap out of it, hitting the outer edges of the balancer, or having to use a power bar on the bolt then you are damaging things and shouldn't be working on cars :D.

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 01:23 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pnut00 View Post
Some suggest putting the balancer in a bucket of boiling water to heat it up, so it expands enough to slide on the shaft.

Personally i don't see the problem with using a bolt to pull it back on or lightly tapping it on with a soft mallet as long as it goes on square and is easy, but like any other work you need to have the right "feel" when you are doing it. If you are smacking the crap out of it, hitting the outer edges of the balancer, or having to use a power bar on the bolt then you are damaging things and shouldn't be working on cars 😄.
Yeah i basically threaded it by hand until I wasn't able to anymore then used a ratched to slowly thread it the rest of the way. Went on pretty smoothly. I'm just now taking it back off in order to just do the timing belt while I have everything apart. Gonna have to recheck everything tomorrow and see if the timing is really bad or my eyes are shot.

-Abe
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