2jzGE with GTE pistons and rods ( piston ring end gap ) - Lexus IS Forum
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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2jzGE with GTE pistons and rods ( piston ring end gap )

I am in the process of building back up my is300 2jzGE engine using 2jzGTE pistons and rods sine i just got back the block and head from the machine shop a week ago and i am doing everything myself ..

so far we have: (Which engine the part applies to)
New main bearings (GE ), new rod bearings (GTE), new ARP Main studs (GE/GTE), new ARP rod Bolts (GTE) , new ARP head Studs (GE/GTE) and new GTE piston rings.

Piston ring set includes All Top rings, 2nd rings and last oil rings (3rd lower rings) // Starting with the Top compression rings when measuring the ring end gap ( ring installed with marks facing up inside the cylinder aligned, sticking feeler gauge in between the semi closed gap, i get measurement of .20" ( first or Top Ring ) we are going to discuss only the top ring to avoid confusion and just to set as example, i have also checked other ring end gaps and have measurements to compare if anyone wants me to add the specs as well...Yes the block was homed at the machine shop, could this be the effect??

using Mitchell on demand program ( pretty much same as ALL Data program used on most shops ) the gap between the GE and GTE rings are shown as follow:

GE Engine

No. 1 standard End Gap: .011 - .018


GTE Engine ( or 1996 toyota supra Turbo )

No. 1 standard End Gap: .011 - .015 (shows we are suppose to have smaller gap on the GTE than GE rings )

Now how is my Gap at .020" ??????? i mean you can file down the ring and make the gap greater but you cant make it smaller!, does not make any sense when following OEM specs from what i also read on supra forums some guys have a gap set at .024" even bigger gap...

Has anyone gap their new piston ring end gaps for their GTE pistons and know what was a safe end gap? i tried to upload pics of the specs on mod here but the link is not letting me drag files to upload ...
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 09:47 AM
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What's the piston to bore clearance? Does it seem to be in spec?

When they honed did, did they have your pistons so they could tell how much to take off?

What's the bore diameter compared to the spec?

Do you have the old rings? How do their gaps compare?

Sounds like the bore might have opened up so the ring gapes are larger.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ek9B18 View Post
What's the piston to bore clearance? Does it seem to be in spec?

When they honed did, did they have your pistons so they could tell how much to take off?

What's the bore diameter compared to the spec?

Sounds like the bore might have opened up so the ring gapes are larger.

Do you have the old rings? How do their gaps compare?
good question and forgot to mention yes i have the old rings and did measure the old ring gaps were actually bigger for example, same top ring in same cylinder measured .023" , compared to the new top ring in same cylinder measuring .020" and compared to what factory says should be no greater than .015" and compare to what ive rear on supra forums similar build guy gapped them at .024" ?? wth
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 10:41 AM
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Looking in the actual Mk4 manual page 1186

Std: 0.0117-0.0157" Max: .0394"

Quote:
If the end gap is greater than maximum, replace the piston ring. If the end gap is greater than maximum, even with a new piston ring, replace the cylinder block.

11. INSPECT PISTON RING END GAP (a) Insert the piston ring into the cylinder bore. (b) Using a piston, push the piston ring a little beyond the bot- tom of the ring travel, 105 mm (4.13 in.) from the top of the cylinder block.
It looks like your bore is showing some wear but isn't beyond max spec.

It looks like .011-.015 is new spec.

Quote:
10. INSPECT PISTON RING GROOVE CLEARANCE Using a feeler gauge, measure the clearance between new pis- ton ring and the wall of the piston ring groove. Ring groove clearance: No.1 0.040 - 0.080 mm (0.0016 - 0.0031 in.) No.2 0.030 - 0.070 mm (0.0012 - 0.0028 in.) If the clearance is not as specified, replace the piston.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ek9B18 View Post
Looking in the actual Mk4 manual page 1186

Std: 0.0117-0.0157" Max: .0394"



It looks like your bore is showing some wear but isn't beyond max spec.

It looks like .011-.015 is new spec.
i wanted to think the same, wear on the cylinder and the honing made the gap widen up, and its why i see a .20" with new GTE rings ( top/1st rings )
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 10:59 AM
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techinfo.toyota.com - $15 for 3 days access last I checked and I was able to download the IS and older car information as PDF's. I wouldn't do this job without access to the actual Toyota manuals.

Using forum posts for assembly details is a recipe for disaster.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ek9B18 View Post
techinfo.toyota.com - $15 for 3 days access last I checked and I was able to download the IS and older car information as PDF's. I wouldn't do this job without access to the actual Toyota manuals.

Using forum posts for assembly details is a recipe for disaster.
I am using Mitchell on Demand is the same as All Data ( dealerships use the same program ) i have it free for work i am an automobile specialist for fleet vehicles, so i there have access to look up the oem specs for any vehicle thats where i got the specs from, i was trying ti upload a screen shot here of the info on the program but i drag the files to the drag and drop file upload but will not load the pics :/ deff not basing my specs on forum info only, it was just a comparison. But seems max specs for new rings is .015, i show .020" on cylinder #1 , .019 on cylinder #2 , .019 on cyl #3 and so on so i am over by an average of .5 from the factory spec. im thinking due to wear and homing on the cylinders now it does not feel that bad any more ... and if anyone needs info form the actual program i will be also more than gladly share whatever ...

Last edited by Doesitcomeinblack_; 04-18-2016 at 11:44 AM.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-19-2016, 12:10 PM
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But seems max specs for new rings is .015, i show .020" on cylinder #1 , .019 on cylinder #2 , .019 on cyl #3 and so on so i am over by an average of .5 from the factory spec. im thinking due to wear and homing on the cylinders now it does not feel that bad any more ... and if anyone needs info form the actual program i will be also more than gladly share whatever ...
On the other hand, if you'd looked at the actual Toyota manual you'd have seen that you're showing some bore wear but that you're well below max. Nothing beats the factory manuals.

You have access to all the manuals but they don't seem to be as good as the OEM manuals. I have some alldata manuals in my collection and they look like they took photographs of the OEM manuals for the diagrams but didn't include all the writing.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-26-2016, 03:14 PM
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When mine got rebuilded i remember my builder told me he had a smaller gap because i was turbo charged so when the engine heats up they expands and i been great at 20psi for over a year now
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-27-2016, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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mine gap stayed between .020 - .019 on all cylinders, compared to what it says on MOD for factory specs the gap new should be .015 on the GTE piston rings. I'm guessing with now 160k of wear on the cylinders and after the honing job at the machine shop .04 - .05 additional sounds right, now i already did assembled the bottom end with all new bearings and ARP hardware main studs, rod studs and it spins just fine so i feel better. and it did say on MOD that the GTE rend gap should be smaller than the GE ring end gap.. now waiting on the XS power turbo kit should be here this week
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