Natural Gas-Powered Honda Civic GX - Lexus IS Forum
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-22-2005, 09:44 AM Thread Starter
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Natural Gas-Powered Honda Civic GX

In what it describes as an industry first, Honda Motor Co. is offering a natural gas vehicle with its own home refueling machine at dealerships in California.

Honda said it has been offering its Honda Civic GX sedan to fleet operators for seven years, and estimates there are 7,000 of the natural gas-powered vehicles on the road. But this will be the first time consumers can buy the vehicle in a dealership and lease a refueling machine to go along with it.

"Driving a natural gas vehicle has never been so convenient," said Gunnar Lindstrom, Honda's manager of alternative fuel vehicle sales.

Honda said it expects to sell about 300 of the vehicles this year through 17 dealerships in northern and southern California. FuelMaker Corp., which makes the refueling machine, also will make the machine available to consumers in Arizona, Salt Lake City, Dallas and Milwaukee, although the Civic GX won't be on sale in those cities.

Honda said the Civic GX can go up to 220 miles without refueling and costs about 3.75 cents per mile to fuel. A conventional, gasoline-powered Civic can go approximately 350 miles without refueling and costs 8.8 cents per mile to fuel.

The Civic GX has some of the lowest emissions of any vehicle on the road, Honda said. On average, a car with a natural gas-powered internal-combustion engine emits 87 percent less nitrogen oxide, 70 percent less carbon monoxide and 25 less carbon dioxide than a car with an engine that uses gasoline, according to Honda.

The refueling machine uses a home's existing natural gas lines and can be installed for $500 to $1,500. Dealers will lease it for between $34 and $79 a month, Honda said. The lower leasing price factors in possible clean-vehicle incentives from state and local governments, Honda said.

There are a few downsides. If the vehicle runs out of natural gas on the road, it would have to be towed to the owners' home or one of the 100 California gas stations that now have natural gas refueling tanks. The refueling machine also takes eight hours to fuel the vehicle, which means consumers most likely would have to fill it overnight. "The car is clearly not your primary car. It's your commuter car, your secondary car," Lindstrom said.

FuelMaker said the machine is registered as a household appliance and is no more dangerous than any other appliances that use natural gas.

Toyota Motor Co. spokeswoman Cindy Knight said Honda's offer likely is a first. Toyota offers no similar vehicle or home refueling option, Knight said.

The Civic GX has a 1.7-liter, 4-cylinder engine and starts at $21,760. Buyers can take advantage of a $2,000 federal tax deduction for alternative fuel vehicles.

http://www.fuelmaker.com
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-22-2005, 09:46 AM Thread Starter
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Is the natural-gas Civic GX the cleanest internal-combustion vehicle on Earth?

The EPA certainly thinks so. And in March of 2005, California motorists will have the opportunity to buy this environmentally conscious, natural-gas vehicle from select Honda dealers. (The GX will eventually be available nationwide.) The GX has everything you'd expect from a Civic, like a roomy cabin and responsive acceleration.

But GX owners can also experience the convenience of filling up their tanks at home with a compact home refueling station called Phill. And California GX owners are even eligible to access carpool lanes. Although the Civic GX is a revolutionary vehicle, it's actually been on the streets and enjoyed by fleet operators since 1998. Maybe it's the right vehicle for you.

http://automobiles.honda.com/models/...ivic+GX&bhcp=1
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-22-2005, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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Refueling at home:

Filling up your tank just might be the most convenient aspect of owning a Civic GX. That's because you can refuel at home while you're asleep.
Meet Phill, the first home refueling appliance available to owners of natural gas vehicles. Phill is a compact unit (30" x 14" x 14") made by FuelMaker that's easily installed to your home gas line, inside or outside your garage. This is the very same gas line you use to fuel appliances such as your gas stove. Phill is as safe and quiet as a clothes dryer. It's equipped with several built-in features that monitor and detect minute leaks and automatically shut down the system if necessary.


Refueling on the road:

When you're out and about, please consider the following. A full tank of gas supplies the GX with a driving range of approximately 200 miles. In most cases, this will allow you to travel to your destination and back home to refuel with Phill. But sometimes you'll need to fill up on the road.
At times like these, you can refuel in mere minutes at the numerous alternative fuel stations throughout California. Check out the California Natural Gas Vehicle Coalition Web site for a complete list of locations. Please note: always be sure to call the station first to make sure that they're open and accept common forms of payment. (Some stations require you to open a business account to operate the pump.)

http://www.cngvc.org
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-22-2005, 10:54 AM
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Takes 8hrs to fill up, kind of long if you ask me.
I know in Europe they have been using similar technology, not sure if it's the same gas or not. (LPG it's called) Takes a little bit longer to fill up then a normal fill with gas. The LPG system is installed on the car with exsisting gasoline engine. My uncle has that on his A6 Wagon, and you can switch between gasoline and gas by click of a button.

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-22-2005, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawel
Takes 8hrs to fill up, kind of long if you ask me.
I know in Europe they have been using similar technology, not sure if it's the same gas or not. (LPG it's called) Takes a little bit longer to fill up then a normal fill with gas. The LPG system is installed on the car with exsisting gasoline engine. My uncle has that on his A6 Wagon, and you can switch between gasoline and gas by click of a button.
we have that in india too..LPG is what we use for cooking stoves, and people modify the car to accept LPG as well as gas.. its totally illegal , since LPG is HIGHLY inflammable, and even though you get much better mileage and an almost completely clean burn, the power is just not there.... the combustion rate is too slow, and imo can damage the engine's timing...

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-26-2005, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawel
Takes 8hrs to fill up, kind of long if you ask me.
I know in Europe they have been using similar technology, not sure if it's the same gas or not. (LPG it's called) Takes a little bit longer to fill up then a normal fill with gas. The LPG system is installed on the car with exsisting gasoline engine. My uncle has that on his A6 Wagon, and you can switch between gasoline and gas by click of a button.
Fill up at a natural gas station is much faster... takes minutes.

CNG is different from LPG. You cannot perform LPG refueling at home.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-26-2005, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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The Civic GX is also the only vehicle distributed nationwide that is certified to the stringent EPA Tier 2-Bin 2 emissions standard and it meets California's Advanced Technology Partial Zero Emission Vehicle (AT-PZEV) standards. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has certified the U.S.-made Honda Civic GX as "the cleanest internal combustion engine-powered vehicle." The GX was the first vehicle to earn AT-PZEV status in California and the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy (ACEEE) recently named the Civic GX as the "Greenest Vehicle of the Year" in overall environmental performance, ahead of even hybrid vehicles.

Natural gas powered vehicles are part of Honda's strategy to offer the best available technology for the reduction of air pollution, greenhouse gas emissions and petroleum dependence. Natural gas, an abundant North American resource, is among the best alternatives for displacing petroleum on a near-term basis. Longer-term, the Civic GX and Phill can help to bridge the gap between gasoline and even cleaner, more efficient energy alternatives such as hydrogen-powered fuel cells.

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=348667
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-29-2005, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitkc
we have that in india too..LPG is what we use for cooking stoves, and people modify the car to accept LPG as well as gas.. its totally illegal , since LPG is HIGHLY inflammable, and even though you get much better mileage and an almost completely clean burn, the power is just not there.... the combustion rate is too slow, and imo can damage the engine's timing...
It's not illegal in any way shape or form.
I'm not sure if it's called LPG or not. It is used in Europe, the gas a lot of gas stations sell it along with gasoline. It's dangerous for sure, if installed by someone who doesn't know what he or she is doing, or if the kit is cheap. Other than that, you loose a little bit of power, and also your engine will use a little bit more oil.
I remember it cost something like $2000 for my uncle to put it on his A6. But in a long run you'll get that money back by saving on gas.

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-29-2005, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by IS_300HP
Fill up at a natural gas station is much faster... takes minutes.

CNG is different from LPG. You cannot perform LPG refueling at home.
I know, in Europe a lot of Gas stations will sell LPG along with gasoline.

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-29-2005, 03:55 PM
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This still doesn't solve the oil problem though, since CNG is derived from fossil fuels.

Can this also be done with methane? Dump sites have to burn this stuff off because they have so much of it.

Yup
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-29-2005, 04:02 PM
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This still doesn't solve the oil problem though, since CNG is derived from fossil fuels.

Can this also be done with methane? Dump sites have to burn this stuff off because they have so much of it.
There is no free energy if you ask me, or energy without sacrifice. Same thing with electric energy, a lot of fossil fuels are still being burned in order to produce it, which creates pollution. So there is no clear winner with either solution.
I'm guessing here, but I'm sure they could use methane some how as a source of fuel.

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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-30-2005, 01:22 PM
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School buses in CA (and prolly other places too) have been using Compressed Natural Gas for a while now..

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