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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by hasanazhar View Post
The Toyota 3.5L V6 (not sure of the model code) is a great motor. Though I wonder why they didn't go with the Direct Injected version of it, which can be found in most Lexus cars...
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Originally Posted by ItalynStylion View Post
My guess is that there might not have been enough room. From what I remember the direct injection heads add quite a considerable amount of geometry to the top of the cylinder banks. Check how high these heads are off the block.
That's one very plausible explanation. Another is that, eventually, Lotus plans to supercharge the Evora, and many of us know what a bitch it is to combine boost with Toyota-style direct injection. Yet another issue is the noisiness of direct injectors, hence those big engine-covering shrouds in new Lexus models. Lotus wasn't going to go overboard with sound insulation and make the Evora heavier than it already is.

I have a ton of article links on the Evora and Lotus/Toyota connections stashed in my Pending Articles files, which may list another reason or two I don't recall offhand.

As an FYI, remember the name Roger Becker. He's the quiet, behind-the-scenes engineer that has helped make Lotus what it is today. Sure, founder Colin Chapman and Mike Kimberley get their rightful share of public credit, but Becker is, in a sense, the power behind the throne, and a link between the Chapman and post-Chapman eras. And, by the way, it was Becker who helped cement the Toyota/Lotus ties, which go back much further than many think.

One eye-popping bit of trivia: the original Toyota MR2 was really supposed to be a Lotus, but the company was in such dire straits that they couldn't afford to build it, so Toyota took it over and built it themselves, under their own brand.

Somehow, somewhere, I'll write a nice article on the full story of Toyota/Lotus ties.

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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 04:34 PM
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One eye-popping bit of trivia: the original Toyota MR2 was really supposed to be a Lotus, but the company was in such dire straits that they couldn't afford to build it, so Toyota took it over and built it themselves, under their own brand.

Somehow, somewhere, I'll write a nice article on the full story of Toyota/Lotus ties.
What's ironic about that statement is that I've always said that the new Toyota MR2 would have basically been a Lotus Elise with the Celical GTS engine in it. Only 2200lbs. that thing would be a screamer for sure. It should have come that way from the factory.


PS: That's about the only car I can think of that LOST weight as time went on for the newer model. From the older MR2 to the new MR2 Spyder it lost over 600lbs. AND IT WAS A CONVERTABLE TOO! How nuts is that?

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This is the future of engine technology. There is a replacement for displacement, and it's called efficiency.

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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ItalynStylion View Post
What's ironic about that statement is that I've always said that the new Toyota MR2 would have basically been a Lotus Elise with the Celical GTS engine in it. Only 2200lbs. that thing would be a screamer for sure. It should have come that way from the factory.


PS: That's about the only car I can think of that LOST weight as time went on for the newer model. From the older MR2 to the new MR2 Spyder it lost over 600lbs. AND IT WAS A CONVERTABLE TOO! How nuts is that?
You never read the article Sport Compact Car did on their project MR-S against a bone stock Elise did you? The Modded MR-S (turbo, full suspension, agressive alignment, ect ect) DID turn the same lap time as an Elise (albiet the MR-S was faster in the 1/4) BUT those laptimes had to be set by a professional driver. The MR-S was way too much of a handful for the average experienced but not pro driver to handle. Its platform has many shortcomings which the Elise has been engineered around from the ground up. My friend who used to have an MR-S and now has a caged, stripped S2000 Road race car said my IS300 feels like more of a sports car than his MR-S EVER did.

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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 10:20 PM
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You never read the article Sport Compact Car did on their project MR-S against a bone stock Elise did you? The Modded MR-S (turbo, full suspension, agressive alignment, ect ect) DID turn the same lap time as an Elise (albiet the MR-S was faster in the 1/4) BUT those laptimes had to be set by a professional driver. The MR-S was way too much of a handful for the average experienced but not pro driver to handle. Its platform has many shortcomings which the Elise has been engineered around from the ground up. My friend who used to have an MR-S and now has a caged, stripped S2000 Road race car said my IS300 feels like more of a sports car than his MR-S EVER did.
Man that blows. I know they don't handle like a car made by lotus (who practically invented suspension) but I thought they were still pretty good. I still think it would be a fun ass car.

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This is the future of engine technology. There is a replacement for displacement, and it's called efficiency.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 10:32 PM
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That's one very plausible explanation. Another is that, eventually, Lotus plans to supercharge the Evora, and many of us know what a bitch it is to combine boost with Toyota-style direct injection. Yet another issue is the noisiness of direct injectors, hence those big engine-covering shrouds in new Lexus models. Lotus wasn't going to go overboard with sound insulation and make the Evora heavier than it already is.

I have a ton of article links on the Evora and Lotus/Toyota connections stashed in my Pending Articles files, which may list another reason or two I don't recall offhand.

As an FYI, remember the name Roger Becker. He's the quiet, behind-the-scenes engineer that has helped make Lotus what it is today. Sure, founder Colin Chapman and Mike Kimberley get their rightful share of public credit, but Becker is, in a sense, the power behind the throne, and a link between the Chapman and post-Chapman eras. And, by the way, it was Becker who helped cement the Toyota/Lotus ties, which go back much further than many think.

One eye-popping bit of trivia: the original Toyota MR2 was really supposed to be a Lotus, but the company was in such dire straits that they couldn't afford to build it, so Toyota took it over and built it themselves, under their own brand.

Somehow, somewhere, I'll write a nice article on the full story of Toyota/Lotus ties.
like the old Espirit turbo had the rear taillights from a Celica Supra? lol

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you have zero experience tuning anything but a george forman grill.
no car.
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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-23-2009, 09:44 AM
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That's one very plausible explanation. Another is that, eventually, Lotus plans to supercharge the Evora, and many of us know what a bitch it is to combine boost with Toyota-style direct injection. Yet another issue is the noisiness of direct injectors, hence those big engine-covering shrouds in new Lexus models. Lotus wasn't going to go overboard with sound insulation and make the Evora heavier than it already is.

I have a ton of article links on the Evora and Lotus/Toyota connections stashed in my Pending Articles files, which may list another reason or two I don't recall offhand.

As an FYI, remember the name Roger Becker. He's the quiet, behind-the-scenes engineer that has helped make Lotus what it is today. Sure, founder Colin Chapman and Mike Kimberley get their rightful share of public credit, but Becker is, in a sense, the power behind the throne, and a link between the Chapman and post-Chapman eras. And, by the way, it was Becker who helped cement the Toyota/Lotus ties, which go back much further than many think.

One eye-popping bit of trivia: the original Toyota MR2 was really supposed to be a Lotus, but the company was in such dire straits that they couldn't afford to build it, so Toyota took it over and built it themselves, under their own brand.

Somehow, somewhere, I'll write a nice article on the full story of Toyota/Lotus ties.
This is great. Lotus has some great technology, but I'm not sure how long it'll be able to survive on its own. It makes perfect sense for Toyota to buy them out. They should retain the brand, but share technology. It'll be a win-win for both, and the consumers.
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-23-2009, 10:23 AM
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This is great. Lotus has some great technology, but I'm not sure how long it'll be able to survive on its own. It makes perfect sense for Toyota to buy them out. They should retain the brand, but share technology. It'll be a win-win for both, and the consumers.
I agree. Since Toyota doesn't think anything sporty fits with their brand image Lotus could be their go fast/awesome brand.

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This is the future of engine technology. There is a replacement for displacement, and it's called efficiency.
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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-23-2009, 12:58 PM
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This is great. Lotus has some great technology, but I'm not sure how long it'll be able to survive on its own. It makes perfect sense for Toyota to buy them out. They should retain the brand, but share technology. It'll be a win-win for both, and the consumers.
As of now, Lotus isn't in dire straits. They're owned by Malaysia's Proton and the Lotus engineering consultancy business is going quite well.

Still, given the overall worldwide economic climate, that could change quickly. For proof, look no further than the Porsche drama, which shows how quickly a carmaker can go from being the world's most profitable to hanging on the verge of bankruptcy.

If Lotus' (or Proton's) fortunes were to suddenly plummet, I agree that Toyota would be an excellent natural partner.

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